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amigo 01-21-2016 11:52 PM

I'm back with more questions :)

we have our puppy on a feeding schedule, 6:30 am, 1 pm, and 5 pm. we would like to take him out the last time for the night at 11:30.

puppy consistently (since we have him) has been getting up at 4, he whines a bit and hubby takes him out, he pees and poops, and goes back to sleep. then he's up at 5:15. I will take him out, he pees again, and thinks its playtime. uh uh no way. too early for me. if I put him back in his crate and lay down next to him, he will settle until 6:30 (I dont have to be there the whole time just 5-10 min).

now, he's giving hubby a hard time at 4, wants to play, wont go back to bed unless hubby lays next to him. so maybe I've set up a bad habit.

also, he falls asleep around 6 pm and there is no waking him. we take him out to pee (carry him out if we have to) every 45 min or so and he's all groggy and goes right back to sleep. then he'll get up around 8, play a bit, and by 9 he's asleep again.

I'm thinking it might be a good idea to move things around so that he's up more in the evenings, and less in the pre-dawn hours! any advice?

and what about the whining in the crate? I dont want him to think the crate is horrible, but I also dont want him needing me to help him fall asleep. I do want him to sleep in the crate for now because he is not trustworthy around the house yet, and he's quickly outgrowing his pen. he doesnt mind being in his crate during the day for short periods of time (longest being 2.5 hrs).

Bigboy 01-22-2016 07:55 AM

Yes I think this is what has happened you have given in to him and now he expects this every time It's time to reverse this behaviour (nothing wrong with play time! Just the wrong time of day :) ) As for whining in the crate ignore but a good tip that worked for me and lots of other puppy owners. Get a old 'T' shirt that as your body scent on it and a ticking alarm clock ( turn the alarm off!!) put the ticking clock in the crate then cover with the 'T' shirt the clock resembles the the mother's
heart beat and the 'T' shirt will bring to him a scent he is acustomed to :)

And good idea keeping him up a little longer and tire him out at this stage too! Remember a tired dog is a happy dog ;) I take it he is getting better with thw pee/poops thing?!! Do let us know if these measures help you!!

amigo 01-22-2016 03:39 PM

so we should ignore his whining in the crate? we do have a tshirt in there, but I dont have a ticking clock.

we kept him up a bit longer yesterday evening and did some training and hide & seek with the kids, really had him running around. and he slept 11:30 - 5. so that's good. but was whining by 5:45 wanting to play. we ignored him until 6:30. will try it again tonight.

the pee/poop thing is a bit better, sort of. I'm working really heavily on leave it/come/and loose leash walking. so now when I take him out we go for a quick little walk around the patio first then he pees. when he tries to get stuff in his mouth I've been telling him leave it and if I have some treats on me (I always do these days) he will usually leave the sticks or whatever. we started working on drop it indoors, I dont think he's ready for it outside yet so when there's something already in his mouth I tell him to do something (come or even give paw) so I can reward him with a treat...he drops what's in his mouth for my treats.
he still doesnt poop on any schedule (aside from his predawn dump, lol) and its driving me crazy. I hope that will change as he gets older.

Bigboy 01-22-2016 04:56 PM

I a word yes!! Providing he has been for a last pee and poop. Seriously if he knows you will come running every time he whines then he will use this to get what he wants it's a simple as that :) between 5:45 and 6:30 did he stop in any way? The 'T' shirt have you got you body scent on it? As for the clock you can buy a cheap one at any hardware store It doesn't even have to keep good time! and yes the Pee/Poop thing will get better too :) Keep up the good work you will get there!!

JGLI 01-22-2016 08:43 PM

What worked very well for me was a 'two crate system". I have one in the kitchen and one, sightly smaller, in my bedroom. As a pup Cheynie would be crated in the kitchen one if I needed to go out and at night she slept in the one in my bedroom. She willingly went to sleep in that one and if she woke up, she apparently was reassured that I was close by and went back to sleep. Now if I have visiting puppies, they spend the night in the bedroom crate (Cheynie has graduated to my bed!) and really do settle in fast and sleep. I think they just get apprehensive or anxious if they feel isolated. What is interesting and amuses me now, is that Cheynie loves her kitchen crate. I don't need to crate her anymore and don't even when I go out but it is there and the door is always open and she goes in and out at will. It's "her space"...her "big girl crate".. and if I accidentally close the crate door while vacuuming, etc., she will stand in front of it and whine until I open the door to let her in! The bedroom crate is a completely different story.... she will no longer set even one foot in it and if a toy that she wants is in it, she will stand outside of it and try to paw it out without entering it! If puppies are here and in the crate for the night, she will not let them out until I reach in and get them. That crate is apparently the puppy crate and no longer where she belongs :-) I do leave the bedroom crate set up but that is only because I often have visiting 'mini-fosters' on short notice.

amigo 01-23-2016 08:30 PM

ok, so last night was a disaster. we kept Buddy up later than usual and he fell asleep around 9 (after going out to pee). we took him out again at 10 and again at 11:30, he went right back to sleep in his crate. so far so good.
he woke up at 3:30 or so and my husband took him out, put him in the crate where he proceeded to whine/howl/holler/bark for hours. then suddenly, at 5:30 he stopped. great, I think. he gave up and went to sleep. but no. teenage son (not knowing that we were doing this..somehow I had neglected to tell him, he wasnt around when I told everyone else) heard him and thought we didnt so he took him out and then laid next to the crate to get Buddy back to sleep. and then he slept all morning. (the dog I mean, although teen son did too lol)


I should mention that I am *not good at sleep training!* never could do it when my kids were babies. once they got to the panicky cries I gave up and figured what the heck so they sleep in our bed for a couple of years.

maybe I will try another crate in the bedroom and see how that goes.

bigboy...yes, the tshirt we have in there is one I wore, I'm pretty sure it has my scent on it.

Bigboy 01-24-2016 06:49 AM

That's the trouble when every one is not on the same page so put it down to experience and down to 'human' error! You could post notes on the fridge door explaining the rules of the house for the puppy or simply get everyone together and have a chat :) I mean it's up to you but I wouldn't keep moving the crate around. While I understand it's hard
I too thought about it (like you are) but decided to leave things the way they were and within a week (not months etc) Nipper realised that I wasn't going to come running every time she whined! and it stopped!!!

amigo 01-24-2016 11:09 AM

thanks for weighing in again, bigboy

I really dont want a crate in the bedroom, because the long term goal is for Buddy to sleep with one of the kids, not me! and he is not ready to be supervised by the kids overnight.

I know I keep asking the same question, but really...I can just leave him to bark and howl for hours? its not all night, just after he gets up to pee at 4 ish until its time to get up at 6:30.
also, should we not wait for him to let us know he needs to go out at 4? should we perhaps set an alarm and wake him earlier and then ignore any attempts at getting our attention until wake up time?

and it happens during the day sometimes, he will be in his pen or just hanging out and then he whines to let us know he needs to go out. maybe thats also contributing to the problem of him thinking we will come every time he calls? not sure how else to handle that because I like the fact that he lets me know he needs to go out.
but typing this out right now makes me think that maybe he just *wants* to go out and whines to get what he wants?
sometimes I wish he spoke english!

oh and btw, the pee/poop thing is way easier now that we have 2 ft of snow. he cant find any leaves/sticks/rocks to try to eat!

Bigboy 01-24-2016 03:03 PM

Hmm But it's mostly you at the moment doing the training but that's a good while off :)It's good that he does let you know he needs to go, but once he has been the whining then becomes a attention seeking thing!!! You could try a small portable radio playing some calming classical music next to the crate!! Now contine to work harder on the other commands especialy now some snow has fallen :) And as always we are here to help so ask away!!!

JGLI 01-24-2016 04:47 PM

If he is whining or crying because he needs to go out, yes, take him out to "go" and then it's right back to the crate to go back to sleep. This is a situation I encounter all the time with the mini-fosters. I make sure the lights are out and place the pup(s) back in the crate with a toy or a treat and ignore any further whining behavior.

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