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Old 03-20-2013, 06:32 PM   #1
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Default 17 week old Mini Dachshund Advise About "time Out"

I know it looks like "War & Peace" novel lol but please don't be put off



I have had adult 5 dogs in my life, 4 Basset Hounds and one Dachshund all rescues or rehoused adults.

After many years of wanting a puppy but being too afraid of the commitment and responsibility (never had a human child either) we bought a 17 week old female Mini Dachshund a week ago called Co Co.

We already have a 7 year old male of the same breed called Harvey who we rehabilitated following him being paralyzed in Sept 2012. He is back on all fours but is still weak on his back legs and as there has been no progress for 3 months we can assume he will never be any stronger than he is which is basically that he can go on walks around the block and can even run albeit "bunny hopping"

The situation:

I am at home all day. I work from home in my upstairs office.
Husband works out of the home.

Co Co came from a breeder who had multiple crates in his house all with adult and/or puppies in them. We suspect she was not let out of the crate much at all. The house wasn't big enough and so many dogs etc..

So in theory she WAS crate trained and used to that.

The 3 hour journey home, we placed her in the crate in the car with Harvey our older dog and she attached herself to Harvey instantly.

Harvey is good with her. He is alpha dog and that's as it should be.

They play fight but he soon snaps when he's had enough and she has tons of chew toys to entertain her and does play with them.

They sleep together in the utility room at night which is baby gated.
So far no missed nights sleep. As long as she is with Harvey she is fine.

She came to us "paper trained" and "Crate Trained" so we continued with the paper training on a short term plan.
Potty Paper is in the utility room with food, water, toys and beds etc.

Harvey is house trained and will go potty on command outside.

She has even peed on command for me a few times both on paper inside AND outside where Harvey goes, so it's encouraging.

Tonight, I asked her to "go wee wee" and she squeezed a few drops out "just" to please me...I always give her a lot of praise and a puppy treat when she wees on command.

She also responds to her name when called and will come running to me..most of the time.

She HATES the crate however. Harvey is not crate trained he doesn't need and did not come to use crate trained

She hates the crate to the point, if I put her in the utility room mid day for "time out" she hides behind the ironing board and won't go into her crate.
If I take the bed out of the crate, she will get on it but still cry and "yip"

The Problem or Concern

Its been two days since husband went back to work and as I have been suffering with a cold, I haven't gone back to work yet anyway BUT I am torn.

I cannot "puppy sit" every single day for months, watching her every move as she runs around the house, I need to work.

Everywhere I read says to crate train her.

However, she is attached to Harvey so I can't suddenly stick him in a crate..
I hated crating him when we had to following his disk/paralyze episode.

If I just crate train her alone...she cries and Harvey gets stressed and upset trying to get to her.

I feel guilty locking them both in the baby gate utility room.. Harvey is used to sleeping in his bed and barks when he wants to pee..

I am torn.

I feel guilty for locking them both in the utility room
I can't separate them as she cries for Harvey and he wants to go to her
I feel stressed "puppy sitting" 10 hours a day
I need to be able to go work in my office.

Am I being too soft?

What DOES seem to work is if she is with me in the office. She whines a little and I just ignore her and she then settles on her bed with her chew toys.

Harvey's life, under these circumstances would go back to how it was.. him downstairs, un crated, me up stairs working.

I have a feeling I "should" contain them BOTH in the utility room until she is house trained but I feel so guilty on Harvey...not so much her.. because she has been stuck in a crate all of her short life so having open space even gated off is better than being stuck in a crate.

But poor Harvey has become the "puppy owner" by default and I feel it's a bit unfair to put all of that energy on his shoulders. Like we have "passed the book" to poor harvey.

Urgh!!!!

Am I emotionally over analyzing ?

If I was to go out to work.. I doubt it would cross my mind but living with them means I see and hear them and it upsets me to think of them both locked behind a gate for most of the day with me only letting them out to play, feed and potty a couple of hours during the day and then until 10pm at night.

She barely sleeps during the day... she has small naps but this is not a puppy that is sleeping 16 - 20 hours a day (As is often documented)

Because her "place" is in the same bed as Harvey, in the living area, with me during the day, she has free range and 90% of the time she does pee and poo on the paper in the utility room.

But she just plays all day... or sniffs about..or investigates...and then "cat naps" for 10 mins here and there...

I am not moaning about that because I am just thankful she is quiet at night when I put them in the gated utility room.

They see me coming and going in the kitchen at night as I don't go to sleep till 1am ish and Harvey never whines and so far neither does she as I come and go.

I am wondering if by NOT forcing "time out" she is kind of over stimulated (?)

Then again, if I force her to stay in the utility room...she might sleep all day and yap all night!

She sleeps (we think) solidly 8 - 10 hours at night...very little during the day.

Many thanks for any advise in advance

Last edited by roseenglish; 03-21-2013 at 02:17 AM..

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Old 03-20-2013, 07:15 PM   #2
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Last edited by roseenglish; 03-21-2013 at 02:16 AM..

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Old 03-22-2013, 01:05 AM   #3
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Welcome to the forum. Sorry I can't help with the situation. Hopefully someone else will have some suggestions.

I'd like to see some pics of your new baby and Harvey too.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:06 AM   #4
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Hi Roseenglish And welcome aboard to Df!! Please don't apologise we are here to help! I will start with the paper training: You need to abandon this for outside potty now your puppy is over 3 months old and can go out now as booster vacs ( hope fully have been given!) should have been administered Confusion will only set in if the puppy isn't taken out side
to go Now on the other crate problem while I understand your concern as you can't watch her all the time you say she is great in the gated utility room and she is ok upstairs in your office happly chewing away on her toys so why not leave it as it is, especialy as she is unseperable from Harvey so she is getting canine company WHa you could do is have a play pen in your office so she can't get in to mischief (which she doesn't seem to do any way!!! ) but every 30 mins or so take her out for pee/poop and as she gets older she will be able to hold her self for longer periods of time!!! And bless you for rescuing her from
seemed to a unpleasent previous home she was in HTH And please keep us updated!
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:28 AM   #5
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roseenglish, welcome to the Forum! Maybe one of the trainers on this Forum will give you a few suggestions.

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Old 03-22-2013, 12:41 PM   #6
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Hi

Thanks for replying,

Well, I "was" taking her outside but here in "Sunny UK" its blowing a blizzard of snow... not ideal circumstances for an outside training session... my theory is..if she learns the command "go wee wee" (And she has by the way, she does that on command every time on paper inside) then the transition will be quicker and easier outside... when its not 4 inch of snow and blowing sleet in our faces.

If I lived in a place that was mild or warm most of the year...I would have scrapped the newspaper instantly but weather is awful...even my older Dog Harvey needs a firm "Get out!" when I open the door and he clings close to the wall where the snow hasn't fallen on the ground! lol

As I write this, Co Co is in her bed at my feet in my office

My concern was to avoid separation anxiety with Harvey..she's fine with me leaving a room (mostly) because I am always in the house and she can hear me moving about but she doesn't like being without Harvey so that's what I am working on... building her confidence up to be apart from him a few hours a day and at the same time giving Harvey some "time out too"

Every day seems to be getting easier, I am getting more calmer as she is learning more and more.

She gets on her bed when I command, she wees on command (for a treat!) and she comes to me when I call her name..and she's never cried at nights on the account she sleeps with Harvey anyway

I don't think that's bad for 1 week ..its a learning curve for me and her..

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Old 03-23-2013, 01:36 AM   #7
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I think you are creating too much dependency on the older dog by expecting him to baby sit 24/7. Your puppy needs to learn some independence from him, and how to cope with small amounts of alone time. As your puppy ages, you may well find that she becomes too boisterous for Harvey, and he will appreciate breaks from her. There will also be times when one of them needs to spend time at the vets, or has to be segregated due to injury or illness, or when you wish to take them out separately, so better to tackle the problem early. Another risk is that the interdependence with the other dog will lessen the attachment to her human family, and make training more of a challenge later on.

I think Bigboy's suggestion of using a play pen in the office is a good idea for some of your day. You can leave your older dog loose to choose where he wants to hang out. I would also start introducing short periods of time for your puppy in the utility room alone, while you spend some one on one time with Harvey.

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Old 03-23-2013, 04:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaos View Post
I think you are creating too much dependency on the older dog by expecting him to baby sit 24/7. Your puppy needs to learn some independence from him, and how to cope with small amounts of alone time. As your puppy ages, you may well find that she becomes too boisterous for Harvey, and he will appreciate breaks from her. There will also be times when one of them needs to spend time at the vets, or has to be segregated due to injury or illness, or when you wish to take them out separately, so better to tackle the problem early. Another risk is that the interdependence with the other dog will lessen the attachment to her human family, and make training more of a challenge later on.

I think Bigboy's suggestion of using a play pen in the office is a good idea for some of your day. You can leave your older dog loose to choose where he wants to hang out. I would also start introducing short periods of time for your puppy in the utility room alone, while you spend some one on one time with Harvey.
I agree... when I am back at work...she will be with me upstairs

Two reasons.

1) As you suggest, I want Harvey to have some time out too and she needs to learn to be comfortable without him

2) House training.

As I write this, we have had 3 days of a blizzard and 4 inches of snow outside.
It's a struggle to get my trained dog to do his business in that! (He does however with my metaphorical foot up his behind!)
So to get a scared, young and cold puppy to relax to go potty in 4 inch of snow..sorry...don't care what anyone says...I can't do that.

I HAVE however, trained her to potty on command every single time I ask. She will wee on the papers and I give her a treat and lots of praise.

So when the snow melts and Spring finally hits the UK...I will transfer that command to the garden area where Harvey goes and I am hoping it will be easier due to the command training I have worked with her inside the house.

On a normal routine, I would put them outside for potty at 1 or 2am and my partner is up at 6am so I am hoping when the snow melts this will help get her off the paper at nighttime.

Its all a learning curve

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Old 03-23-2013, 08:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseenglish View Post
I agree... when I am back at work...she will be with me upstairs

Two reasons.

1) As you suggest, I want Harvey to have some time out too and she needs to learn to be comfortable without him

2) House training.

As I write this, we have had 3 days of a blizzard and 4 inches of snow outside.
It's a struggle to get my trained dog to do his business in that! (He does however with my metaphorical foot up his behind!)
So to get a scared, young and cold puppy to relax to go potty in 4 inch of snow..sorry...don't care what anyone says...I can't do that.

I HAVE however, trained her to potty on command every single time I ask. She will wee on the papers and I give her a treat and lots of praise.

So when the snow melts and Spring finally hits the UK...I will transfer that command to the garden area where Harvey goes and I am hoping it will be easier due to the command training I have worked with her inside the house.

On a normal routine, I would put them outside for potty at 1 or 2am and my partner is up at 6am so I am hoping when the snow melts this will help get her off the paper at nighttime.

Its all a learning curve
While I understand the problems with the snow and the bad weather over the last few days, there is nothing wrong/cruel about teaching a young dog to go out side But saying that if you have mastered the paper thing in doors I would when the snow goes ( you don't have to wait till its a lot warmer outside either) move the papers near and near the back door then you may have well cracked it Good luck and keep us updated
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:51 AM   #10
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Spring WILL come some month! Things will be better then.
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