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Old 11-21-2006, 04:51 AM   #1
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Unhappy Training failing ... Last resort plea for help

My puppy training is failing and my Fiance is losing his patience with my Pups. He express to me in a cell phone call that he's stress out as is and the Pups are making Life for him more stressful. He says he's tired of the Poop, Pee, and Odor. He says he misses lounging on the couch and watching TV. He was telling me that if things can be controlled .. he might give me the one way option of having to get rid of the Pups. I told him ... Babe, they're only 6 months old and it's like having a 6 month old human baby. They require lots of patience and understanding. He just said ... well, I've had all that I can take of these misbehaving pups. I Love Moose and Maggie ! I'd hate to see them go and wanted to keep them til' they grew old and God's angels take them. On Nov. 29th I have the pups scheduled for Spay/Neuter I'm hoping that will calm their misbehaving and focus them to the repeated training I've been giving them. But if all else fails ... can you guys please give me some advice on how I can avoid having to watch them be handed over to strangers as new owners ? I'm asking here as a last resort and plea for help to keep the pups in my life.
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Old 11-21-2006, 05:26 AM   #2
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Sorry to say this, and believe me, I mean it in the nicest possible way, but I'm not surprised your Fiance is getting naffed off. At 6 months old your pups should be able to hold their bladders and bowels at least.
It's not fair to compare them to 6 month old babies either - the rate of development in a canine is totally different and an awful lot faster - they are still pups but function in exactly the same way as an adult dog. A baby is usually 2 when they potty train - are you happy for them to pee everywhere for the next 18 months?
I suggest that you keep the dogs away from any soft furnishings until they are potty trained properly. Keep them either in one room or use a crate, and go back to the very basics of potty training eg out every 30 mins, praise like mad when they go in the right place etc.

Are they both 6 months old? And both from the same litter? It's quite possible that the dogs have bonded more with each other than with you - so any training you do with them should be on a one-to-one basis, this may help to focus their attention on you.

Go back to the very basics of training and start implementing a NILIF policy immediately (nothing in life is free). I think you should have a word with your obedience trainer too - maybe they could help out....
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:29 AM   #3
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Have to say I agree with Mrs Rottie at six months they should be capable of controlling their bladders. I too would crate them and start training from scratch, sorry to be so blunt,but they are puppies not babies. I can well understand why your fiancee is so stressed about it. I know you love the puppies and don't want to have to part with them but I feel you are going about their training in the wrong way and if you keep treating them as babies they will keep behaving this way. Crate them keep them off the furniture and back to basics in the training.
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:37 AM   #4
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I agree with them also. They should be potty trained by now.

Getting them neutered and spayed is great but it won't teach them good manners. Have you thought about puppy classes? If you are having trouble with potty training, are you able to control other behaviors?

It is important to remember, what you allow now will always be unless you teach them other wise.

Confine them to a small area until they are potty trained. Once they go where you want them to, then bring them in and give them a few minutes of quality play time so they know that is how they get to be in with everyone else. After a short time of hard play, they will need to go again so put them back out.

Do you just let them out the door to a fenced area or do you have to walk them to go? If you don't have a fenced area, can you get like a small doggy play pen so they can be left to do there business?
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Old 11-21-2006, 06:37 PM   #5
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No No ... you guys have it all wrong. They are potty trained and know to use the paper. It's just saying my fiance works the night shift and currently I'm visiting family for Thanksgiving holiday so the Pups are alone in the house for 8+ hrs. and poo/pee piles up on the paper. He was talking about how when he comes home Newspapers are full and the place is a mess. I suggested to him to let them out to go pee/poo like an hr before going to work and then zip up the front door to their crate and crate them in for the rest of the night. So when he comes home there won't be a mess. Then once he's settle in he can let them run about but every night zip them in the crates. Please, dont think of me that I'm like a 5 yr. old trying to raise two pups. They have been potty trained and if mistakes are made I put their noses to it and tell them sternly that it was a mistake. Then if they do it right I praise with some treats. I'm just a little bit lost when it comes to training and all this stuff cuz I've wanted a Dog since I was a kid but I always had to settle for a goldfish, hamster, or cat. So I'm a beginner with the Dog thing. So forgive me if I sound so NooB !!
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Old 11-21-2006, 08:27 PM   #6
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you should NEVER punish them for going in the house!!!!!!!!!!! it will only make them fear you and do it when you are not looking!!!! and it will also be extremely confusing to them if you dont catch them in the act and just punish them when you see it!!!!! the do not think or act like people and do not recognize good from bad the same way we do!!!! if you are still having them go inside on papers then i think you need to go get a book on how to properly house train, i have never used paper training as it just confuses them, saying to them yes you can go potty in the house, and then turn around and punish them when they do, just take them outside and praise them when they go to the bathroom, at 6 months they should not even be using papers anyways, or be left alone for 8 hours a day by themselves. Just my Honest opinion.
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Old 11-21-2006, 09:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inu-No-Mama View Post
Please, dont think of me that I'm like a 5 yr. old trying to raise two pups. They have been potty trained and if mistakes are made I put their noses to it and tell them sternly that it was a mistake. Then if they do it right I praise with some treats. I'm just a little bit lost when it comes to training and all this stuff cuz I've wanted a Dog since I was a kid but I always had to settle for a goldfish, hamster, or cat. So I'm a beginner with the Dog thing. So forgive me if I sound so NooB !!
OK you are forgiven, but you have to learn quickly that "putting their noses to it" is a big mistake. For one thing, dogs will not understand why you are doing it. They do not make the connection between you being displeased and them having gone somewhere they should not have. For another, dogs do not think of their poo as being all that terribly gross. Think of the fact that many dogs EAT their own poo. It is about like someone shoving your face into a bowl of oatmeal. You would definitely be unhappy about it, but it would not change your potty habits.

And if you scold them WHILE they are going where they shouldn't, their doggy brain registers that you are displeased, but not the way you want them to. What they think is "oh, mommy scolds me when she sees me go poo. I'll make sure she never sees me go poo again". If you want to train your dog to be sneaky about pooing and go behind the couch when you are not looking but refuse to go while you are out on a walk, this is how to do it. If you are trying to housetrain though, this is NOT how you do it.
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Old 11-22-2006, 06:57 AM   #8
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I have to agree you should NEVER put their noses in it when they pee or poo inside as they do not understand why you are doing this and we guys have not got it all wrong we may have misunderstood your original post but we answered you as we interpreted what you meant in your post so we may have interpretted it wrong but the advice given was right for what you posted to begin with. I appreciate it is not always easy to say exactly what you mean when putting it in writing.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inu-No-Mama View Post
...Please, dont think of me that I'm like a 5 yr. old trying to raise two pups. They have been potty trained and if mistakes are made I put their noses to it and tell them sternly that it was a mistake. Then if they do it right I praise with some treats. I'm just a little bit lost when it comes to training and all this stuff cuz I've wanted a Dog since I was a kid but I always had to settle for a goldfish, hamster, or cat. So I'm a beginner with the Dog thing. So forgive me if I sound so NooB !!
There's nothing to forgive. There's nothing wrong with being new to it. We all want to see you succeed. That said, you've got a real problem, here. In both threads on this subject, you have received some good advice. We are concerned, because your dogs are affecting your relationship with your partner, and because your dogs are not getting the training and reinforcement they need to be successful.

At the heart of it all is the fact that you are new to dogs (even if you are an experienced pet owner), and new to training. You think your dogs are potty trained, but they are not. You think you are training them, but you are not. You need help. Not when it is convenient. Now.

First, get your dogs confined in the house, away from the furniture, preferably in an area that will be easy to clean. Crate or pen or room gated off - it doesn't matter how you do it. Just do it. You have to break the patterns of unacceptable behavior.

Second, you have to get the furniture, carpets, floors (and walls, if necessary) cleaned with enzymatic cleaners designed to neutralize urine and other residues - something like OdorZyme or one of the others. You may have to replace some of the furniture. Any hint of pee or poo will encourage them to pee and poo there, again, regardless of where "there" is. So, everything has to be clean before you can even think about reintroducing your pets to the furniture.

Third, you need to start housebreaking from scratch, immediately. Paper training is fine for young puppies that don't have full control of their bladders, yet. Yours are too old for paper training. You need to be taking them outside, frequently (like every two hours), from morning until bedtime, whether or not they need to go. When they do pee or poop outside, you need to say "Go Potty" and praise them lavishly for going when and where you want them to go. If they have an accident inside the house, you don't punish them for it; instead, if you catch them in the act, you try to interrupt the behavior, as quickly and gently as you can, and get them outside to finish (and even if they are finished before you can stop them, take them outside, immediately, to help them associate going with outside), and while they are outside, clean up the mess. If you don't catch them in the act, but just find an accident, you need to remove the dogs from the room and then clean up the mess, right away, with an enzymatic cleaner. Once they are going outside, reliably, when and where you want them to go, you can make the trips less frequent and work on getting them to tell you when they need to go out. At a minimum, you need to take them out first thing in the morning, before meals and about 15 minutes after meals, after naps, just before bedtime, and other times as your schedule allows.

Fourth, whether you realize it or not, your dogs are controlling your life, not the other way around, and you have to get that corrected. Read up on NILIF - Nothing In Life Is Free. It really works. Your dogs will really appreciate it when you give their lives structure. You will find you appreciate the difference, too. So will your partner.

Fifth, enroll yourself and one of your dogs in an obedience class. The class is as much for you as for your dog, so you can learn how to train. There is an art to it, and you have to be taught how to do it. You can learn from a book, but you learn much better, and faster, in person. For the breeds you have, "soft" training, like clicker training, should work very well. Your training with your dogs has to be one-on-one, meaning you can't train both at the same time. Training two dogs is twice the work. So, you take one dog to class, and bring back what you know and do the same training with the other. Each day, you have training for one dog and separate training for the other.

Finally, you need to do all these things at the same time. If it sounds like a lot of work, it is. I promise you, though, it will be worth it in the long run.

You aren't stupid, or bad, or anything...just new. Now, get in gear and get things turned around.
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:51 AM   #10
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