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Old 02-02-2009, 10:15 PM   #1
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Default Can there be more than one "Alpha" for a puppy?

A quick question:

Two new puppies, two people. Does one of us need to be "in charge", or the "pack leader" as I guess the Dog Whisperer calls it (I don't know much about him) ? Or is it OK for both of us to be "in charge"?

I'd love to hear any info you all have regarding getting new pups used to each member of the family as an authority figure. Thanks!

- CJ

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Old 02-02-2009, 10:47 PM   #2
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If you search n Cesar Millan here you will see our discussions.
Most of us who deals with dogs in a work or rescue basis do not like the guy.

To take advice from him in anything about dogs is to risk to set yourself up for failure.

Try to be a good role model be patient, consistent, simple clear rules, a lot of good rewards and set the puppy up for success and you run a much better chance of getting your dream dog
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:09 PM   #3
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The term 'Alpha' is a LOT misleading. Frankly, for you doggies to be good canine citizens 'every' human being should be above them, and especially in your family. Make your training as positive as possible, build a solid relationship with you pups, and be consistent. This will lead to a happy home and well adjusted pups.

Don't forget to socialize with both canine and humankind!
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:25 PM   #4
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I think leader would be a better term because "alpha" is indeed misleading.

The puppies need to learn to obey humans period. This is done easily through just regular positive reinforcement training. Being domesticated, dogs have a natural tendency to bond to and look up to humans, so training them will help you communicate.

You'll probably find that your puppies will follow commands given by family better than by strangers. They also have a tendency to follow commands given by the person who's spending the most time with them too. This is ok and normal. They are like shoes (you know how shoes mold to the feet that wear them the most). They don't need to obey every command given by total strangers. As long as you (or whatever family member is handling the dogs) has control over them around strangers and the dogs are polite (don't jump or play nip or anything like that), it's fine.

Each member of your family needs to spend time training the dogs, playing with them, walking them, feeding them etc. You need make sure everybody agrees on what boundaries the puppies should follow and make sure everybody participates in teaching the dogs what those boundaries are. For example, are the dogs going to be allowed on the furnature? If so, can they be up whenever they want? Or must they be invited? You need to agree on that and everybody needs to make sure the dogs don't jump up uninvited. If you don't want dogs on the furnature, then you can't have family members letting them on the couch behind your back.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:46 PM   #5
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I do not feel it is very fair to put down Ceasar Millian, he is a professional successful trainer and nobody here is that like him. We do not all approve of all pro trainers methods, we use what works for each of us.

I am 70 yrs old and run a pack of six German shepherds. They eat together in each bowel for each dog. They run and play and obey me as I am their leader, not their Friend. I love my dogs very much, but they must learn to respect me totally, to look up to me, to obey me, etc. This is the same thing you must do, is be the Leader or Boss. Whatever you prefer to be named.

I import puppies, raise them into wonderful adults that are smart, disaplined and full of love and respect. I often have days I must stop and try to think like a dog if something is not just right. Once you know your puppies, they start to respect and obey you, this is what you will need also to do. They cannot tell you they hurt, are thirsty, hungry, angry, upset, so we have to try and figure out the problem.

If you use positive methods from a variety of trainers of books read well, videos, TV shows, take what works best for you to use and combine them, your puppies will turn out fine and look up to the one Teaching them all this. Take turns feeding, walking them, whomever gets the daily chore does as the Boss says, how you lead the pups, how you feed the, times, etc. All family members can enjoy pets and be loved and respected, but their must be a Leader to teach them properly right from wrong, use pet and praise for rewards is what I do as I do not like treats for mine, they love a hug more.

The Monks of New Skete are great Trainers, but I do not believe in all the methods they use, but in heeling or leading they use the quick straight pop up and release, not to the side or back on the dogs neck. They use the quick turn around if the dog or pup is pulling on the lead, this helps teach it not to do this and in reverse mode it changes it to learn the proper method your teaching on the left knee of your side.

I wish you the best, pick n choose is best for me and I have large dogs powerful and full of energy and I am crippled with RA and ankel with steel plate in it, I am now breeding two females, no problems. I manage well as my dogs look to me for the next move all the time. I love them they know this also. There is NO perfect person on earth to train a dog of any breed, we just do what works, practice makes for better and patience prevails. The Best To You All.....
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:48 PM   #6
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I found this link from clicker training I do not use to most everything in Obedience of a puppy to a dog. I think it might help you out alot to look up some of the things that interest you and make notes or print it out and make your own guide.

http://www.dog-obedience-training-review.com/
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Old 02-03-2009, 12:44 AM   #7
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As long as you both give the puppies the same commands & don't confuse them with different words for the same exercise. They are a blank slate & you need to shape them into the dogs you will be able to happily live with.
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Old 02-03-2009, 09:04 AM   #8
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I think Draco put it very nicely. The term "alpha" is out of place here. Your puppies should look to both of you to guidance as to what is expected of them. Aside from the normal puppy silliness, it will be difficult because you have two (and I presume from the same litter) so they will naturally be more focused on each other than on you. You can help by separating them and training them individually.

The challenge will most likely come later, wehn your puppies reach the equivalent of the adolescent stage and try to make decisions for themselves as opposedto obeying your commands.

Have fun and good luck!
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Old 02-03-2009, 10:01 AM   #9
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Hi Cjmia I agree with Skunstripe on this what ever term you use wether it be Pack leader or Alpha etc. You both can be in tune with your dog(S) but you both have to sing orm the same him sheet! For Eg: If you give a command like come here then your other half must use the same word to avoid confusion on the dog(s) part. Also you both must be consistant in this Eg: It's no use sayiing some thing half a dozen times to get a result then your other half only says the same thing once or twice Iam not going to turn this in to another Cesar Milan thread just to say if you ever watch his programmes then you can make your own mind up! Monkey doesn't like him but each to their own
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Old 02-03-2009, 01:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjmia08 View Post
A quick question:

Two new puppies, two people. Does one of us need to be "in charge", or the "pack leader" as I guess the Dog Whisperer calls it (I don't know much about him) ? Or is it OK for both of us to be "in charge"?

I'd love to hear any info you all have regarding getting new pups used to each member of the family as an authority figure. Thanks!

- CJ

Your puppies need to see you all humans in their household as "leader" not alpha,,,,, it will not confuse them in the least.

As others have said, there are far better trainers to follow than CM..


Quote:
Originally Posted by sheplovr View Post
I do not feel it is very fair to put down Ceasar Millian, he is a professional successful trainer and nobody here is that like him. We do not all approve of all pro trainers methods, we use what works for each of us.

Professional by what degree, he has not qualifications to add to his name in the profession of dog behaviour.

Yes he is successful , as he has a huge TV coverage... the man is self taught (nothing wrong in that, some of the best trainers are) but his methods are taken from a background where animal welfare and understanding are not so hot off the ground. he lives in the past, advocating " dominance " "dominance" dominance" over the canine world.

Getting back to the OP question.

There are many more sympathetic trainers out there and many good books.. you will find many on Amazon.

Anything by Turid Rugaas is worth a read.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&k...s&tag=googhydr-

Also Gwen Bailey....The perfect puppy , is well worth getting

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/search?ie...the%20perfect%
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