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Old 08-12-2008, 05:17 AM   #1
M&H
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Question What is the best option for my Pup at night?

I have become the owner of a 9 week old Siberian Husky pup.

I have been told numerous things about what to do with my pup at night and I am not sure what to believe or put in place. Presume, each suggestion has its own pro's and con's, but would be grateful if you could give me your advice on what you think is best.

The first night, we put him in his crate which is based in the kitchen, but left the door open on the crate allowing him to get out to use the toilet. He was crying and whining extremely loud the first night as you would expect, but I did have to go down once as it was getting over the top and my neighbours have a baby! He was comforted and went to sleep when left, through to 4.15am. (well don't think he slept all that time but he was quiet!). Then the crying and whining started again.

The second night we tried the same, put him in his crate and left the door open. This time he played up, he got out of the crate and rather than just whine/cry he was banging his paws on the door from kitchen to living room which was making a very loud noise. I left him to it for quite a while but it got worse and worse, so eventually I had to go downstairs to see to him. I found the poor pup panting and he had done a lot on wee's on the paper and a poo, all in the space of 20 minutes !

My partner then slept downstairs with him that night in the living room.

What we're finding is that when he is left, he is doing a lot of wee's on the paper outside of the crate in a short space of time, when he generally goes once an hour or maybe twice maximum. We have also already let him relieve himself prior to leaving him aswell, and can't understand where all the wee comes from in such a short space of time! My thoughts are that it is down to nerves and being anxious about being left alone.
We have been informed of numerous ways to make it easier at night for and these are what we have been told to do:

* Put crate in living room and situate it next to you, and you sleep on the sofa. Providing reassurance that you are still there when he cries/whines by talking to him or
putting your fingers in the crate. Let him out every 3-4 hours to relieve himself, then return to crate.

* Situate the crate in another room (kitchen) and lock him away in there, get up every 3-4 hours or when he cries to let him out to relieve himself then put him straight back
into the crate. Put the radio on low and also place an alarm clock underneath the crate so it sounds like his mothers heartbeat.

I am not keen on this locking away in the crate, but you will probably say I am silly ! Reason why I am not keen is because the amount on wee's he does when he is left on his own, and I am worried that he will soil his crate which we obviously want to avoid. I also don't want to start putting puppy pads/paper in his crate as that then gives the impression that it is ok to soil in his crate.

Also, do you leave water in the crate when locking him away. May sound silly, but surely this would increase the chances of accidents happening due to drinking so much?

I would be grateful for any feedback or advice anyone can provide me with, and what really is the best option, and does the same rule apply when you are leaving him for a couple of hours during the day?
Thank you in advance.

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Old 08-12-2008, 06:31 AM   #2
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Hello We also have just got a new puppy, we seem to have figured out a way that makes us both happy. Our pup also has a crate in the kitchen, she has a little bed in it along with a bowl of water a puppy pad, I put a tshirt that has my smell on it in her bed, along with a ticking clock and a plush toy. We shut the door, I kno you dont like the idea but dogs are den animals and actually quite like it. She does cry and its awful but you must be rutheless. We put a cover over her crate, gradually the crying happens for a shorter and shorter time, she doesnt even cry at all now. And shes sleeping right through the night. Your pup has to learn that when he cries your not coming, he will eventually quit it, you dont want him to be the boss! Let me know how you get on
You might want to look at the advice on a thread i posted "pup wakes up in the middle of the night"


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Old 08-12-2008, 07:58 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reply. I will definitely try and start this off tonight. The only thing that worries me with that is the fact that the toilet is effectively in the crate. Will they not become accustomed to going to the toilet in the crate during the day when we're in the house? Also as my pup seems to got wee mad when he is left on his own, will that stop, or will he flood his crate out and basically be sleeping in his own wee and poo?!

When you leave your pup, or when you eventually leave your pup, will you just do the same thing during the day as you do at night?

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Old 08-12-2008, 08:20 AM   #4
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Hi M&H and welcome to the forum!
Great advice from PJess!
The most important thing when housetraining is to make sure your puppy has ample opportunity to go outside. They have tiny bladders and also NO bladder / bowel control. How often are you taking himout? He'll need to go out about once an hour during the day and probably once in the middle of the night. I personally would not leave a water dish in the crate with a small puppy as they might knock it over and then have to sleep on a damp blanket / cushion.
You could be right about the stress part, that should right itself in a few days. For now your puppy has been taken from mom and littermates and is in a strange place. When he gets use to the routine and knows what to expect from one hour to the next things will get easier.
For now I would not lock the crate unless you are positive that he is comfortable with that. If you rush things and close it, this could make him anxious about the crate and then the crate training will have been sabotaged. If he is messing just outside the crate this is of course better then in the crate, but managing the situation by being there to take him outside would be better still.

Enjoy your new pup and please post piccies!
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Old 08-12-2008, 08:37 AM   #5
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Hi M&H and wellcome aboard to the Dogforum Here's what I did with my pup (who is now 9 months old!) Puppies will cry especialy when the leave the mother! Nipper sleeps downstairs No crate ( Iam not a believer in them although some members use them) The golden rule is what every you choose to do stick with it and don't change the rules other wise confusion on the dogs part will happen. The breeder gave me a puppy pack. So I began reading it. Rgarding crying. Here's what you do: Get a old 'T' shirt rub it on your body and put it on the bedding along with a ticking watch/clock which must be placed under the bedding. Both these items will comfort the puppy and resemble the mother's scent/heart beat. To come down and comfort your pup is perfectly normal but must be avoided as the pup is seeking attention.
This method works and I would say leave the 'T' shirt and ticking watch in place for over 1 month may be 2 months, when removed your pup will be settled by then. Try it and see what you think. And when putting your pup to bed don't make a big fuss over it just bed down and leave. On the Peeing/poo thing Iwould advise not to feed your pup to late at night probably no later than 9pm. Puppies do have no control over this bodily function (but it does get better over time ) After the last meal give it 20 mis and let the pup straight out in to the yard no play time as he/ahe has job to to do! As soon as your pup does it praise in a big way and give pup a cuddle during the day you could reward with a couple treats as well as the praise when he has peed and pooed in the yard and not in the house! Good luck in what yiou decide to do

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Old 08-13-2008, 06:38 AM   #6
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Hello I have done the whole ticking clock and tshirts smelling of me thing and let me tell you it works! It seems to calm her down. I can understand your worries about pup thinking the toilet is in his crate but my puppy doesnt use it, I would advise you to get puppy pads! theyre great, what I do is during the day I take the puppy pad out of the crate and put it by the back door, she knows this is her toilet and hardly ever wees or poos anywhere else, we've only had her a week! When she gets her injections ill move the puppy pad outside then eventually remove it all together. on a night i put the pad in her crate, If they gotta go they gotta go! I know some membes disagree but if your pups getting stressed he's going to get dehydrated and so i would leave water. If you leave the crate open hes never going to learn thats where he has to stay. Theres another member on here "SophieMellisa" and shes just got a pup and we both have used the same technique, when you put him in and shut the door he will cry and cry but eventually the crying gets less then stops altogether. I you're worried why dont you pu him i during the day and just go into another room and ignore him see how long it takes him to settle when he thinks youre not there?

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Old 08-13-2008, 08:13 AM   #7
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I also think puppy training pads are good, and depending how far the
back door is away from where your pup sleeps could determine on how many you put down. i would say 1 pad is not enough! You can't expect a puppy to hold it's self while it's trying to got to pad. Where Nipper sleeps it is about 12ft from the back door so when she was a very young puppy I would lay 3 pads one near her bed, one about 1 yard (3 feet away) and one near the back door, gradualy as she got better at this trianing and as she was growing I only used 2 pads then 1 pad. and now there is no need for training pads. It's all down to common sense

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Old 08-13-2008, 05:03 PM   #8
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Well last night, got put on the back burner really.

We had to leave him on his own for 2 hours yesterday afternoon as I was at work and my partner had to go to work, so he was on his own from the time she left till I came home which was two hours.

We also had to do the same the day before. The day before we had him in the crate but with the door open so he had the run of kitchen and access to the toilet area etc. I returned home that day to find a particularly horrible mess in the toilet area which was soaking due to the amount of wee's he had done, and had also trodden in his own poo !
I came in and found him trying to dig his way out of the crate and crying.

Seems he had been quite distressed by the whole thing so yesterday when we were forced to leave him for the same period of time we decided to lock him in the crate with half toilet area (puppy pads) and the rest bed. We left toys in there, a Kong to keep him entertained. the TV was left on and a T-Shirt with my scent on. However, I returned to find him in a worse state than the day before. He had been to the toilet in the correct area, but had put his bed on top of the toilet, the crate was pretty wet from water aswell. It really was a nasty sight, and I have never felt as bad in my entire life, that the poor fella had been so upset like that !

He does not hate the crate, as he goes in and out for toys and he slept in there last night. But due to what had happend the day before and that day when he was left on his own he slept next to my partner in the crate. He was fine.

Its really upsetting to see him in such a state when he is being left. I am strong and can put up with whining/crying but to see him getting distressed like that, and soiling his crate etc its upsetting. I just don't know where to go from here. How do we make it easier for him to stay on his own?

HELP !

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Old 08-13-2008, 05:32 PM   #9
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He is only a baby and at 9 weeks his bladder is tiny and he cannot hold it in for 2 hours. Sorry but at present 2 hours is too long to leave him alone . Have you not got a neighbour or relative or friend who could puppy sit him you have to leave him? A few months down the line he will be fine but right now as I say his bladder cannot hold it for 2 hours
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Old 08-13-2008, 08:24 PM   #10
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Could you clarify something for us? Are you creating a "potty area" INSIDE the crate?

If so, that's the first thing that needs to be cleared up....The crate is for sleeping ONLY. Crate training works because of the clean den theory. If a dog were living feral, it would dig a hole or find a discarded box to have the puppies in. That's the "den". When the puppies are very young, the mother keeps the den clean herself by eating feces. But as the pups get older, they have an instinct to keep the sleeping area clean, so they will actually exit the den, potty and then return.

We use that concept when we crate train. The crate is the "den" and we are going off the puppy's natural desire to keep the den clean. But because he can't leave on his own accord, it's up to us to take him out regularly to let him go. A puppy will typically do all in it's power to avoid soiling the den, and again, it's up to us to listen and figure out if he really has to go, or if he just wants out.

So if you are trying to make a "potty area" in the crate, I suggest giving that up and simply creating a schedule to get him outside to potty regularly. If he's already decided that it's ok to pee/poo in the crate, then it'll make potty training difficult.

Get yourself and him on a schedule, that's the first step. Like us, puppies' bodies can adapt to follow a rhythm. If you were to start eating and drinking at the same time during the day every day, you'd also start going to the bathroom at the same time during the day, every day. Puppy will do the same. So schedule eating times. Say you decide it's 8:00am. Get up a little earlier, take him out to potty first, then bring him inside and feed him. After he eats and drinks, back outside to potty again. Give him an hour, hour and a half, then take him out once again. Keep taking him out every hour to hour and a half until your scheduled lunch. Then again until your scheduled dinner. Put him to bed at the same time every day as well and take him out regularly during the night....Set your alarm.

Another thing that might help is to restrict water access. He can have as much water as he wants all day, but say after dinner, only icecubes. The reasoning behind this is again, body rhythms. If he suddenly drinks a ton of water at one time, his bladder will fill up suddenly and he'll have to pee. If he's drinking water gradually (point of icecubes, they don't allow a lot of water to be consumed at once), his bladder will fill gradually and he won't have to pee right away. And at night, that's a plus because it means you get a tad more sleep!

And lastly, REWARD! If you take him outside and he potties, make a HUGE deal out of it like he just did the greatest thing in the world. Lots of praise, cuddles, smilies, petting, a quick treat, a quick play. If you see that he's pottied where he wasn't supposed to, just clean it up, don't try to punish him for it because he won't understand. Also, if you happen to catch him in the act, again, don't punish him. Just interrupt him with a clap or "hey!" and promptly escort him outside to finish. You won't be punishing him for pottying in the house, you'll be punishing him for going potty in front of you and that can hinder potty training. And on the note of pottying where he's not supposed to, be sure to clean it up thoroughly with special pet mess cleaners. You have to get all of the scents and enzymes off the floor and out of the carpet, otherwise it's like having a "potty here!" sign right under his nose.
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