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Old 02-12-2009, 06:37 PM   #71
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Maybe, and they should of, but he was from someone who my parents knew, he was the dog who wouldn't be sold, he was the dog whose future was in jeopardy, kind of like Diesel

I know that they should of walked away, I know that I should of walked away from Diesel, and they are my mistakes, but I'm very soft, and couldn't leave Diesel I had no choice with Jobé, I wish I did.
oKAY your parents knew them and it was a sad situation and future was in jeopardy and I can understand that it was difficult to say no - but Chas that is how these sort of breeders keeep going by playing on folks just like you and it only encourages them to breed more . Where there is demand they will continue to supply .
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:39 PM   #72
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She was very lucky to gain all that info from the gypsies , they are not know for giving much away... and to hand over the papers is something of a first!!!
I know, its something of a miracle, the poor dog though suffered very badly
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Old 02-12-2009, 06:48 PM   #73
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Folks out of respect to OP, let's not use this thread to discuss an individual member's dog. That is turning the thread into a chat session.
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Old 02-12-2009, 07:40 PM   #74
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Health tests should be done if a guarantee on any health issue is given such as I do the hearts, eyes, thyroid besides hips n elbows. Have been very fortunate but nobody can guarantee anything as that one little gene can slip through, this is why a guarantee. Germans will not give such a thing, but they experience the same as we do, we just do not hear about it only if you know any and I do.!!

Cross breeding dogs for a rare breed is only a money gimmick to me, my mom was a sucker for that and paid a bundle for junk dogs that got kidney stones, etc. She help feed this mess, but Bless Her Soul no longer....
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Old 02-12-2009, 08:20 PM   #75
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Thank you Sheplovr, someone else with a responsible attitude.

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Old 02-20-2009, 01:03 AM   #76
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Sorry I thought this thread had died a slow painful death but obviously not.

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Ethically they should be discouraging people from cross breeding but they dont, they are not interested.
I really don't understand this statement. They're never going to stop people breeding crosses so surely the best thing to do is take them under their wing and guide them, like we keep hearing them say is the only way forward for pedigree dogs. Why is it different for crosses?

Surely they should be encouraging all breeders, pure or cross, to breed as responsibly as possible. Perhaps the reason so few crossbreeds are bred responsibly is because there is no guidance?

What's so unethical about breeding crosses responsibly?

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Chaz If they can't afford to buy it how are going tobe able to pay vet billsand if they were responsible owners then the accident would not happen in the first place.
There's a big difference between paying a lump sum of £500-1000 to the weekly upkeep of £10-20 a week.

Pedigrees may well be bred for the betterment of the breed but how many of those puppies end up in anything other than a pet home the same as any crossbred puppy would. Myself I can't see why breeding for the show ring is such a great reason for breeding, if we really want to limit breeding then it should be limited to breeding for working which is actually a justifed cause.

I actually prefer crossbreeds to pedigree dogs, I like having dogs that are completly unique and not bred to a standard and I would like the option to purchase a responsibly bred crossbreed puppy, at present it's a shame that it's hard to find.

Wouldn't it be better to have crossbreeds bred responsibly; health screened and bred for health and temperament with breeders that are there to offer support and take back puppies if needs be, than to rely on morons who can't keep two random dogs apart?

I don't see any reason that you can't breed crosses just as responsibly than pedigrees.
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Old 02-20-2009, 01:34 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by ajshep1984 View Post
Sorry I thought this thread had died a slow painful death but obviously not.



I really don't understand this statement. They're never going to stop people breeding crosses so surely the best thing to do is take them under their wing and guide them, like we keep hearing them say is the only way forward for pedigree dogs. Why is it different for crosses?

Surely they should be encouraging all breeders, pure or cross, to breed as responsibly as possible. Perhaps the reason so few crossbreeds are bred responsibly is because there is no guidance?

What's so unethical about breeding crosses responsibly?



There's a big difference between paying a lump sum of £500-1000 to the weekly upkeep of £10-20 a week.

Pedigrees may well be bred for the betterment of the breed but how many of those puppies end up in anything other than a pet home the same as any crossbred puppy would. Myself I can't see why breeding for the show ring is such a great reason for breeding, if we really want to limit breeding then it should be limited to breeding for working which is actually a justifed cause.

I actually prefer crossbreeds to pedigree dogs, I like having dogs that are completly unique and not bred to a standard and I would like the option to purchase a responsibly bred crossbreed puppy, at present it's a shame that it's hard to find.

Wouldn't it be better to have crossbreeds bred responsibly; health screened and bred for health and temperament with breeders that are there to offer support and take back puppies if needs be, than to rely on morons who can't keep two random dogs apart?

I don't see any reason that you can't breed crosses just as responsibly than pedigrees.
There actually are a few individuals that are breeding cross breeds responsibly. But they're few and far between. For every one of them there are thousands that are breeding with no more thought to their breeding program than how much money they can make with the least amount of work and expense.

Those individuals don't want to be educated since learning to breed responsibly would lower their profits.

The majority of show breeders are breeding because they're dedicated to the breed. The majority of mass market breeders are breeding because they're dedicated to profit.

Find a rich show breeder and you'll probably discover that they were rich long before they began breeding dogs.
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:20 PM   #78
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It is possible in the same way it is possible for pure breds.

It might not be easy to obtain stock but it isn't impossible. It also depends on what breed you're looking out. Some countries they do working crosses often so it might be possible to have dogs imported from those countries for your own program.

So you can get good quality, work and health test the dogs you obtain.

I'm sure why breeders are against it varies. There are way too many people crossing today for $ or to sell something special or rare (so they claim). Some just have their own opinions. Like pet owners. Some are for, against or in between. To really get what you want it is likely that you will have to go past the F1 cross, but if you notice there is a cross breed craze these days and people just breed F1 crosses over and over for the $. They don't take time to breed and cull for any real purpose. Many do it far from responsible.
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Old 02-28-2009, 08:32 PM   #79
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Funny thing is while watching the Westmister Dogs show...they often anounce the history of how a breed came about...

Newfoundland for instance:
it is thought that the Tibetan mastiff played a large part, and the Great Pyrenees probably played a part as well. There is some speculation of a relation to the Labrador also.


This is just one breed but most breeds except maybe the very acient ones have been originally mixed from othre breeds to cone to one standard we have today. So hundreds of years ago someone had an idea to make a breed to preform a certain purpose, and began mixing breeds to achieve this. Do we no longer strive to evolve? Or create?
Interesting...I believe health is first and formost then careful study of breed health and temperment, and selecting sound specimens to begin with.
Sounds like an experiment to me and if people in the world stop experiementing we will never find a cure for cancer or diabetes...I know dog breeds are a long way from that but still it was ok to try to create a new breed hundreds of years ago but not ok now...imagine if this was never done there would be fewer breed many of these we love!

But I am just playing devils advocate here...please don't hate me for being a free thinker.

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Old 03-01-2009, 06:08 AM   #80
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Interesting thread question and some fascinating responses!

Personally, I find mixed breeds far more interesting than known breeds (it's the mystique I like!) and can quite understand people wanting a mixed breed. There is also plenty of evidence that mixed breeds are healthier and live longer than most pedigreed dogs, a statistic supported by pet insurance companies and one that can not be ignored.

So, I think the poster who said she doesn't breed until she has 6 requests for her puppies is right - and I think that should also be the case for a mixed breed pairing.

I also think that it is a little blinkered to say that anyone who can't afford to pay for a pedigree can not afford to have a dog - personally I wouldn't pay £850 or whatever the price is for any dog; nothing to do with being able to afford it. I simply don't see the need when there are so many dogs out there needing homes without any price tag whatsoever.

Regarding "responsible" breeding, there's a hot potato if ever I heard one! Most pedigree breeders will tell you that responsible breeding is having hip scoring and other health checks before breeding. If that is the case, how is it that many of the popular breeds have developed chronic disease over the years, with many of these dogs having the rosettes to show for it too! - these dogs being from "responsible" breeders lines which has led to the KC revising their standards?

For me, irresponsible breeding is breeding from stock that are kibble fed and vaccinated. These are the two things that have been found to be the key cause of chronic disease in dogs - no hip scoring or eye tests will get you away from that - hence the dalmation needed to be crossed to try and eradicate the so called "genetic defects".

You see, every study, test parameter and statement posted by breed clubs and scientists are based on the study, testing and experiences of chronically ill dogs since ALL the dogs used for these studies and tests are being fed crap in a bag, given neurotoxins to prevent fleas/ticks/heartworm and vaccinated routinely! How these studies can then be taken as reflecting what health is, when the sources of the studies are sick to begin with is beyond me!

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