Wolfdog info! - DogForum.net

Doberman's · 11-11-2007, 10:50 PM

I found this very interesting:

http://www.kc.net/~wolf2dog/wolfdog.htm

Quote:

The Wolfdog; A factual overview
by Steve Masuch
Guardians of Wildlife

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction to the wolfdog

The wolfdog, also known as the wolf-dog hybrid and wolf hybrid, is a mix between a wolf and a dog. Genetically, the wolf and the dog are the same species. The wolf is classified as Canis lupus x, where x is the subspecies of wolf, such as arctos. The family dog is classified as Canis lupus familiaris, changed in 1993 from Canis familiaris.1 Currently, there are no genetic tests available to distinguish a wolf from a dog.3 While many people claim to be able to detect the wolf content in any particular animal based on physical appearance, this is purely the individual's subjective opinion. Because the family dog descended from the wolf, and are the same species, there are no definitive tests to detect wolf content in dogs. Many northern breeds of dogs carry many or all of the same physical attributes as the wolfdog.3

Are wolfdogs more vicious than other dog breeds?

Many people would mislead you to believe that wolfdogs are the most vicious dogs around. On the contrary, wolfdogs have far less fatal attacks than other large breeds of dogs. In a recent study conducted by Jeffrey J. Sacks MD, there were 109 dog bite fatalities in the years 1989 to 1994. The most commonly reported dog breeds involved were pit bulls (24 deaths), followed by rottweilers (16 deaths), and German shepherds (10 deaths).2 The authors point out that many breeds, however, are involved in the problem.

The wolfdog is 6th on the list of dog attack fatalities, with Pit bull terriers in the lead position. One should note the very conservative number of estimated wolfdog population. Estimates range from one hundred thousand (100,000) to two and a half (2.5) million, with three hundred thousand (300,000) being the most frequently quoted population estimate. With this in mind, combined with the AVMA estimated 52 million dogs in the US, if there were a breed specific problem, you would see a far greater amount of dog bite fatalities. The truth is, it’s just not the problem it’s reported to be, statistically speaking.

People would also have you believe that wolfdogs are kid killers. The sad fact is, most dog attack fatalities are children. Of the 157 fatalities between the years 1979 to 1988, 70% of the fatalities were children under 10 years of age. Only five (5) of the 157 fatalities involved wolfdog hybrids. Wolfdogs average less then one fatal attack incident per year over a 15 year period. There are on average 18 dog-bite fatalities per year.2 To contrast these numbers, 165 children drowned in bathtubs in 1991. Another 598 children drowned in swimming pools, and another 361 died from riding their bicycles.5 And yet another 237 children under the age of five (5) died in motor vehicle accidents in 1990 because of lack of appropriate restraining device.5

Although we have strict laws to prevent such fatalities, these things still happen. Why? Inadequate public education is one reason. Does anyone believe the parents would purposely risk their childrens' life if they knew of the dangers? Legislation and regulations can only go so far in protecting the public. Breed specific bans will not work, not only because of the unconstitutionality of them, but also because it’s not a breed specific problem. Most of the factors contributing to dog bites are related to the level of responsibility exercised by dog owners.2 Public education about dogs and dog ownership is key and recommended.6

Aggression

One cannot talk about wolfdog behavior without talking about standard canine behavior. Two recent reports by The Association of Pet Behavior Counselors state that, "Aggression towards people" was the most frequently recorded behavior problem in dogs. Although nuisance attention-seeking behaviors and training problems were frequently recorded, they were usually correlated with another behavior. For example, attention seeking behavior included, dominance aggression towards people, or separation problems. Training problems included, territorial aggression or dominance aggression towards people.7 These behaviors are all reported by anti-wolfdog people as being wolf and wolfdog behaviors, but in reality, they are standard canine behaviors.

Environment also plays a large role in canine behavior. Dominance aggression, learned nuisance behaviors, and separation problems due to owner attachment, are likely to occur in dogs from "domestic" environments. Fear aggression towards strangers and dogs, and fears/phobias are more prevalent in unsocialized dogs, particularly from a "kennel" environment.9 Socialized dogs will exhibit this behavior but the chance further decreases if the dog was from a "domestic" environment.9 Unsocialized dogs from either environment are more likely to be reported as showing this behavior than socialized dogs. The incidence in socialized dogs in either environment increases in line with age obtained.9 In essence, better socialization equals a more social dog or wolfdog, and less socialization presents more anti-social behavior. You cannot develop the same intimate social relationship within a "kennel" environment as you can from a "domestic" environment.

HSUS President Paul G. Irwin states; "Dog bites are not caused by "bad dogs," but by irresponsible owners. Dogs that haven't been properly "socialized," that receive little attention or handling, that are left tied-up for long periods of time, frequently turn into biters."

Destructive Behavior

The wolfdog is accused of having a propensity toward destructive behavior. Such as digging, shredding and chewing furniture. This is true in some cases. The destructive behavior is also apparent in other canines as well. Separation from the owners often results in separation problems in other dogs, with destructive behavior being the leading problem at forty-seven percent of the time.7 "The regular occurrence of separation problems in a "domestic" environment highlights the need for adequate training to ensure puppies can tolerate periods of separation from the owners." Separation anxiety is treatable in older dogs as well. Boredom can also result in destructive behavior.

Are wolfdogs wild or exotic animals?

Not according to the United States Title 9 Code of Federal Regulations (CRF). The CFR defines "dog" as any live or dead dog or any dog-hybrid cross. It also defines animal as any live or dead dog, cat, etc.

"Exotic" animal means any animal not identified in the definition of "animal" provided in this part that is native to a foreign country or of foreign origin or character, is not native to the United States, or was introduced from abroad.11

"Hybrid cross" means an animal resulting from the crossbreeding between two different species or types of animals. Crosses between wild animal species, such as lions and tigers, are considered to be wild animals. Crosses between wild animal species and domestic animals, such as dogs and wolves or buffalo and domestic cattle, are considered to be domestic animals. 11

"Pet animal" means any animal that has commonly been kept as a pet in family households in the United States, such as dogs, cats, guinea pigs, rabbits, and hamsters. This term excludes exotic animals and wild animals.11

"Wild animal" means any animal which is now or historically has been found in the wild, or in the wild state, within the boundaries of the United States, its territories, or possessions. This term includes, but is not limited to, animals such as: Deer, skunk, opossum, raccoon, mink, armadillo, coyote, squirrel, fox, wolf.

brunosmom · 11-12-2007, 07:11 AM

"Isn’t the wolf side always fighting the dog side?
It’s kind of like saying a mix between a husky and a malamute are always fighting internally as to whether it’s a husky or a malamute. It’s also like saying my German side is always fighting to go back to Germany although I am several generations away from a "pure". Just as I have never been to Germany, wolfdogs have never been in the wild, so how can you miss somewhere you have never been? It’s just a dumb statement and I hope you can see it for what it really is."
"so how can you miss somewhere you have never been"??????
http://www.kc.net/~wolf2dog/wolfdog.htm

I don't know if I agree with this statement......I do believe some things are instints and just come naturally even though an animal never actually experiences them like with Katz's thread about burying a bone... it is just an instinct not something that is taught. Wolf dog....I would think to be smarter than your average Joe Smoe's dog.....just by instincts

sheplovr · 11-12-2007, 07:21 AM

I think the German Shepherd derives from the Wolf? Well alot of dogs come from the instincts of the wolf. I would not want to tangle with having one for a pet. Thanks for sharing. Good thread to think about??? The Coyote looks alot like them but smaller in size.

Bugle · 12-18-2007, 10:35 AM

Hello to you all: I have just registered as a Newbie on this forum and thought I would add my two pennorth to the general debate, pros and cons etc. etc. of wolfdog ownership.

Firstly, it is illegal at present to own a dog containing any more than 1% wolf in the UK. This just goes to show what an ASS UK law can be! There is no test on earth that can differentiate between a wolf and a dog, let alone the percentage of wolf in a dog, or not. Wolves and dogs are now classified as the same species - canis lupus.

However, the German Shepherd - the most popular dog in the UK (a nation of dog lovers) - is a wolf cross, and what is more, a very recent wolf cross (middle of the 20th century). Ipso facto, that means that every single GSD in the UK should have a DWD Licence and be kept in a secure compound - no more walkies in the park for Mr Alsatian then.

Secondly, until recently when I lost him, I have been living happily in the depths of the countryside in England with a fairly high percentage wolfdog - a siberian husky/malamute/timber wolf. He was purported to be 75% - I think this was likely to be untrue, I would think he was probably around 30%, however definitely illegal according to the stupid 1% rule. How did we get round the law? We just said he was a mongrel, a sibe cross mal with a bit of shepherd in there for good measure.

For 10 years, that beautiful boy has lived in our home, slept in our bedroom, come to the loo and the bathroom with me, come to pubs, hotels, self catering cottages, restaurants (those that allowed him). Our garden resembles something akin to The Somme after the worst of the fighting in WW1. Our house is still polluted by the balls of fluff similar to tumbleweed, bowling their way up and down stairs, and round the backs of wardrobes etc. Our cars remain clean now and fluff-free. The rabbits, hares, neighbours' chickens and cats are now safe and growing fat once more as they don't need to run their lives every two minutes. I don't fall over his waterbowl in the middle of the night on my way to the loo in the dark, nor do I lacerate my foot on a forgotten bone secreted behind a door or buried under the door mat. My smart dark suits are not permanently festooned in said white fluff. And my heart is broken and for me the world has ended.

That wonderful beast was the light of not only my husband, my daughter's and my life, but neighbours and friends - whose gardens frequently were trampled, whose cats were chased, and I am ashamed to say in one instance their chickens were eaten (albeit they had escaped out into the field). I've had people in tears who didn't even think that they liked Mr Wolf, let alone loved him. He got under your skin with his aloof disdain, his total trustworthiness with young children, young puppies and anyone vulnerable or delicate. He was no sycophant, true to his wolf ancestry, he would no faun, or do tricks, or beg for food. All he asked was to be with us, his pack, with my hubby as alpha male and me as alpha female.

People say "why do you want a wolfdog?" They are just a gimmick, a designer dog, a rip-off. All I can say to such people is "you have obviously never had one, or know one". I am spoilt now for any other dog, and yet for obvious reasons it is going to be virtually impossible to find another one.

People also say "they are not safe, they are dangerous".. Yes indeed they are in the wrong hands. And so is ANY dog in the wrong hands. A chiahuahua can inflict terrible damage with his sharp little teeth, a german shepherd can kill a 20 stone man with the same ease that a wolfdog could, probably more so because shepherd's have a natural aggression which wolves do not.

What I would say is this. Do not get a wolfdog if you are not prepared to put the huge amount of effort in to training a dog who is undoubtedly more intelligent than you are.

Do not get a wolfdog if you go out to work. These beautiful dogs cannot bear to separated from their pack, and will destroy your home, your garden and your bank account if you leave them Home Alone.

Do not get a wolfdog if you are immensely houseproud. They are not so easy to housetrain. They are amazingly clean - our boy would never foul the garden, he had to be taken out in the fields where he would back into a ditch or hedge - but we found it was quite difficult to housetrain him, mainly because he had terrible diarrhoea due to the fact he was on the wrong diet - more of that later.

Do not get a wolfdog if you are not capable of being Alpha. Whereas your wolfdog, like our's, may be an alpha in his or her own right (and God help you if this is the case, because believe me, you have got Double Trouble!), YOU and YOUR PARTNER must rule the roost ! This does not mean that your dog cannot for instance sleep on your bed, on your sofa, sit at table with you etc. - it means that he must not assume that he can. It is a privilege that must be earned through mutual respect. Our boy never took liberties, but he was more than welcome upon invitation to jump up on our bed for morning cuddles. Occasionally during the day I would find him curled up on a spare bed, and would immediately order him off, which he would do immediately although usually with a disdainful grumble or black look. You can't be a control freak with wolfdogs ... you must expect the black look, the grumble of protest. They are very vocal with both their eyes AND their voice, this does not mean they are going to bite you.

To the right person, the wolfdog is the ONLY dog.

**skunkstripe** · 12-18-2007, 10:57 AM

Welcome to the forum. I am very sorry for your loss, it sounds as though you had an extraordinarily deep bond with this special creature. Certainly any dog in the wrong hands can be a problem, a canine with a high percentage of the undomesticated canis lupus even more so. For whatever it is worth there are many breeds that are closer to their wolf ancestors than the majority of pet dogs, and there are many owners like you who cherish aloofness and indepedence ratehr than a willingness to please their human.
Thanks so much for this personal glimpse, and I hope you find another canine worthy of being the successor to your boy.

Bugle · 12-18-2007, 11:48 AM

Skunkstripe: what a lovely welcome, thank you so much. It is always a bit scarey when you are new to a forum and you kick off with such a controversial subject, but in for a penny, in for a pound I say.

You are so right in your summing up of my relationship with Mr Wolf ... and indeed, my attraction to his aloofness and "don't give a ****" attitude! That is not to say that he was not 100% loyal and devoted, just that he chose not to say it like a normal dog. You had to read the subtle wolf signs, not the obvious dog ones. He would show his loyalty and devotion by the slightest nudge of the nose, flash of the eye, or the lightest of sigh. But try and get him to do a perfect recall? Just forget it - at best you would get a gentle meander, usually taking several minutes. The greatest accolade he could give a stranger was to sit or lay down next to them or on them.

We used to say Mr Wolf speaks french, dogs speak english. Both languages are based on latin and therefore the same rootstock, but very different. Some dogs managed, or learned, to speak to him, but most just did not get him. But all bitches without exception, adored him, many really snappy ones who apparently hated dogs sniffing their rears, but would readily stand whilst Mr Wolf had a good old rootle around. Fascinating stuff watching him with other dogs.

Which just goes to say that Bitches Rule OK !!

11-12-2007, 07:11 AM	#2
brunosmom Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: PM... me if you wanna know Posts: 5,908 Rep: 79 Unique Rep: 28	"Isn’t the wolf side always fighting the dog side? It’s kind of like saying a mix between a husky and a malamute are always fighting internally as to whether it’s a husky or a malamute. It’s also like saying my German side is always fighting to go back to Germany although I am several generations away from a "pure". Just as I have never been to Germany, wolfdogs have never been in the wild, so how can you miss somewhere you have never been? It’s just a dumb statement and I hope you can see it for what it really is." "so how can you miss somewhere you have never been"?????? http://www.kc.net/~wolf2dog/wolfdog.htm I don't know if I agree with this statement......I do believe some things are instints and just come naturally even though an animal never actually experiences them like with Katz's thread about burying a bone... it is just an instinct not something that is taught. Wolf dog....I would think to be smarter than your average Joe Smoe's dog.....just by instincts __________________ *jAn* *This post is subject to change without notice*

11-12-2007, 07:21 AM	#3
sheplovr Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: U.S. Posts: 9,481 Blog Entries: 28 Rep: 230 Unique Rep: 88	I think the German Shepherd derives from the Wolf? Well alot of dogs come from the instincts of the wolf. I would not want to tangle with having one for a pet. Thanks for sharing. Good thread to think about??? The Coyote looks alot like them but smaller in size. __________________ "Don't make the mistake of treating your dogs like humans, or they'll treat you like dogs." ~PAT~

12-18-2007, 10:57 AM	#5
skunkstripe All American Dog Lover Join Date: May 2006 Location: New England USA Posts: 20,571 Blog Entries: 10 Rep: 355 Unique Rep: 141	Welcome to the forum. I am very sorry for your loss, it sounds as though you had an extraordinarily deep bond with this special creature. Certainly any dog in the wrong hands can be a problem, a canine with a high percentage of the undomesticated canis lupus even more so. For whatever it is worth there are many breeds that are closer to their wolf ancestors than the majority of pet dogs, and there are many owners like you who cherish aloofness and indepedence ratehr than a willingness to please their human. Thanks so much for this personal glimpse, and I hope you find another canine worthy of being the successor to your boy. __________________ Help us Help you! Read and understand the Terms of Service, report offensive posts and Forum Reputation. Helpful Tips - in our FAQ Section and Newbie Guide. Connect with DogForum.org members - chat with us! Put yourself on the map. Things to do - Start a blog. Be sure to visit the DogForum.org photo gallery Use your computer to benefit mankind - join the DogForum.org Folding Team. Thanks Fede for the sigpic! I've been fleeced by Draco!

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Wolfdog info!

12-18-2007, 10:35 AM	#4
Bugle Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in the depths of the countryside in Middle England ! Posts: 1,241 Rep: 28 Unique Rep: 14	Hello to you all: I have just registered as a Newbie on this forum and thought I would add my two pennorth to the general debate, pros and cons etc. etc. of wolfdog ownership. Firstly, it is illegal at present to own a dog containing any more than 1% wolf in the UK. This just goes to show what an ASS UK law can be! There is no test on earth that can differentiate between a wolf and a dog, let alone the percentage of wolf in a dog, or not. Wolves and dogs are now classified as the same species - canis lupus. However, the German Shepherd - the most popular dog in the UK (a nation of dog lovers) - is a wolf cross, and what is more, a very recent wolf cross (middle of the 20th century). Ipso facto, that means that every single GSD in the UK should have a DWD Licence and be kept in a secure compound - no more walkies in the park for Mr Alsatian then. Secondly, until recently when I lost him, I have been living happily in the depths of the countryside in England with a fairly high percentage wolfdog - a siberian husky/malamute/timber wolf. He was purported to be 75% - I think this was likely to be untrue, I would think he was probably around 30%, however definitely illegal according to the stupid 1% rule. How did we get round the law? We just said he was a mongrel, a sibe cross mal with a bit of shepherd in there for good measure. For 10 years, that beautiful boy has lived in our home, slept in our bedroom, come to the loo and the bathroom with me, come to pubs, hotels, self catering cottages, restaurants (those that allowed him). Our garden resembles something akin to The Somme after the worst of the fighting in WW1. Our house is still polluted by the balls of fluff similar to tumbleweed, bowling their way up and down stairs, and round the backs of wardrobes etc. Our cars remain clean now and fluff-free. The rabbits, hares, neighbours' chickens and cats are now safe and growing fat once more as they don't need to run their lives every two minutes. I don't fall over his waterbowl in the middle of the night on my way to the loo in the dark, nor do I lacerate my foot on a forgotten bone secreted behind a door or buried under the door mat. My smart dark suits are not permanently festooned in said white fluff. And my heart is broken and for me the world has ended. That wonderful beast was the light of not only my husband, my daughter's and my life, but neighbours and friends - whose gardens frequently were trampled, whose cats were chased, and I am ashamed to say in one instance their chickens were eaten (albeit they had escaped out into the field). I've had people in tears who didn't even think that they liked Mr Wolf, let alone loved him. He got under your skin with his aloof disdain, his total trustworthiness with young children, young puppies and anyone vulnerable or delicate. He was no sycophant, true to his wolf ancestry, he would no faun, or do tricks, or beg for food. All he asked was to be with us, his pack, with my hubby as alpha male and me as alpha female. People say "why do you want a wolfdog?" They are just a gimmick, a designer dog, a rip-off. All I can say to such people is "you have obviously never had one, or know one". I am spoilt now for any other dog, and yet for obvious reasons it is going to be virtually impossible to find another one. People also say "they are not safe, they are dangerous".. Yes indeed they are in the wrong hands. And so is ANY dog in the wrong hands. A chiahuahua can inflict terrible damage with his sharp little teeth, a german shepherd can kill a 20 stone man with the same ease that a wolfdog could, probably more so because shepherd's have a natural aggression which wolves do not. What I would say is this. Do not get a wolfdog if you are not prepared to put the huge amount of effort in to training a dog who is undoubtedly more intelligent than you are. Do not get a wolfdog if you go out to work. These beautiful dogs cannot bear to separated from their pack, and will destroy your home, your garden and your bank account if you leave them Home Alone. Do not get a wolfdog if you are immensely houseproud. They are not so easy to housetrain. They are amazingly clean - our boy would never foul the garden, he had to be taken out in the fields where he would back into a ditch or hedge - but we found it was quite difficult to housetrain him, mainly because he had terrible diarrhoea due to the fact he was on the wrong diet - more of that later. Do not get a wolfdog if you are not capable of being Alpha. Whereas your wolfdog, like our's, may be an alpha in his or her own right (and God help you if this is the case, because believe me, you have got Double Trouble!), YOU and YOUR PARTNER must rule the roost ! This does not mean that your dog cannot for instance sleep on your bed, on your sofa, sit at table with you etc. - it means that he must not assume that he can. It is a privilege that must be earned through mutual respect. Our boy never took liberties, but he was more than welcome upon invitation to jump up on our bed for morning cuddles. Occasionally during the day I would find him curled up on a spare bed, and would immediately order him off, which he would do immediately although usually with a disdainful grumble or black look. You can't be a control freak with wolfdogs ... you must expect the black look, the grumble of protest. They are very vocal with both their eyes AND their voice, this does not mean they are going to bite you. To the right person, the wolfdog is the ONLY dog.

12-18-2007, 11:48 AM	#6
Bugle Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in the depths of the countryside in Middle England ! Posts: 1,241 Rep: 28 Unique Rep: 14	Skunkstripe: what a lovely welcome, thank you so much. It is always a bit scarey when you are new to a forum and you kick off with such a controversial subject, but in for a penny, in for a pound I say. You are so right in your summing up of my relationship with Mr Wolf ... and indeed, my attraction to his aloofness and "don't give a ****" attitude! That is not to say that he was not 100% loyal and devoted, just that he chose not to say it like a normal dog. You had to read the subtle wolf signs, not the obvious dog ones. He would show his loyalty and devotion by the slightest nudge of the nose, flash of the eye, or the lightest of sigh. But try and get him to do a perfect recall? Just forget it - at best you would get a gentle meander, usually taking several minutes. The greatest accolade he could give a stranger was to sit or lay down next to them or on them. We used to say Mr Wolf speaks french, dogs speak english. Both languages are based on latin and therefore the same rootstock, but very different. Some dogs managed, or learned, to speak to him, but most just did not get him. But all bitches without exception, adored him, many really snappy ones who apparently hated dogs sniffing their rears, but would readily stand whilst Mr Wolf had a good old rootle around. Fascinating stuff watching him with other dogs. Which just goes to say that Bitches Rule OK !!

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