DogForum.net | Dog Forums and Community
     
 
Home Gallery Register Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar Members List
Search
Go Back   DogForum.net | Dog Forums and Community > Dog Breeds > Herding Dogs / Pastoral

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-13-2012, 10:16 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
Kaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 4,293

Rep: 264 Kaos is a jewel in the roughKaos is a jewel in the roughKaos is a jewel in the rough
Unique Rep: 68
Default

Eye dog is probably an NZ term, but refers to a style of working which is largely eye and stalk, no bark or nip. Border collies usually work primarily this way, and it works really well for precision work with smaller numbers of sheep in the open. ACDs were bred for a fairly different style of work and would have been considered useless if they wouldn't get in there with cattle when required. They are often considered less than ideal for sheep because they can have a tendency to be a little too hard on them.

The dog / dog testing is something I would do with any potential rescue dog I am taking on (even as a foster), and it is actually a huge advantage to adopting a teen rather than a pup. They do play much like other herders (potentially a little more of a full contact player than a border), and mine has been dog social with strange dogs on walks and at home all his life, however I have met some ACDs in pet homes who have developed some snarky bullying type behaviour with other dogs. Often this is lack of appropriate socialisation and training, and it is by no means all ACDs, but it's something I would want to know before I made an adoption decision and especially if you want to do sports where your dog will be in a highly aroused environment in close proximity to a lot of other dogs. Most definitely introduce any potential dog (of any breed!) to your existing dog before making a decision, and at least a couple of other strange dogs. Pay close attention to the interactions and don't be tempted to make excuses for the dog if you don't like what you see. I always advise people to look for a dog who is almost immediately compatible with their existing dog rather than one that 'warms up' to the existing dog after a couple of meetings - it just makes for a less stressful life.

Last edited by Kaos; 09-13-2012 at 10:19 PM..

Kaos is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 11:09 PM   #22
Senior Member
 
MrJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wilkeson, WA
Posts: 2,178

Rep: 33 MrJohn is on a distinguished road
Unique Rep: 7
Default

You metiioned in one post that you didn't want to deal with burrs so the ACD would be best in that regard with their short hair.
Sadie, my aussie get burrs frequently. I pick them out and save them in a bowl and when I get a good supply, I throw them in the yard(s) of people I don't like.
__________________
Some unfortunate people don't have a dog to talk to.

MrJohn is offline MrJohn's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 11:50 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Lucky Nucky Pie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 191

Rep: 10 Lucky Nucky Pie is on a distinguished road
Unique Rep: 0
Default

Definitely. Burrs are annoying. I always feel so bad when I try to work them out of Otis's fur where it is a little longer/thicker, like his ruff, and sometimes I hurt him. He is usually super wimpy, lol. He only goes out in the rain with his raincoat on.

I think that I'll be looking for an ACD for sure. The more you guys talk, the more I think they are a good match to me!!! Also, thanks so much Kaos for the detailed reply!!! I have never gone to a breed rescue before and am very beginner in many dog things, so your information and everyone else's is very very helpful. Even if the ACD or ACD mix I rescue is not a good cow dog, we can still move the cows how we've been doing.

Since ACDs have the herder play-style overall, I think that as a baseline, on average, they will most likely be compatible with my current dog, but definitely, definitely I will do a dog/dog meeting test to see if they buddy up instantly. Like you said, I don't want drama in my house!!!

I love taking my dog with me everywhere like picnics, parades, and dog-friendly areas where they meet new people and sometimes dogs, so it is important that my adopt-dog is well socialized or at least part-way socialized with no big aggression issues. But I think I can handle a dog that is a little bit issue-y.

Oats used to have much fear in many situations, but we worked through them with counter-conditioning and building confidence like being calm and learning to calm himself down. He is so much braver and has a happy, calm attitude now. I wish so hard that I had always used these methods with him instead of wasting how wonderful he was with methods that weren't compatible with either of us (like dominance and leash-jerks).

But thanks so much for all the replies. This is what I needed very much.

Lucky Nucky Pie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 01:58 AM   #24
Senior Member
 
Kaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 4,293

Rep: 264 Kaos is a jewel in the roughKaos is a jewel in the roughKaos is a jewel in the rough
Unique Rep: 68
Default

Don't assume you have to take on a dog with issues just because you rescue. It's a common misconception, but in fact there are a wealth of completely well adjusted rescues out there waiting for homes (as well as plenty with issues). Bank on any rescue needing obedience training, and quite likely house training too. Expect it to pull on a lead, jump on you and wee on your floor. These are all really really easy things to fix in any dog at any age. However, what I won't compromise on is one that has a sound temperament and as you say has been adequately socialised. Be clear in your mind what is an obedience training issue (no problem, you can do that) and what is a serious behavioural issue that will require extensive and time consuming behaviour modification (avoid this unless you want a lifelong project). I want to see outgoing and friendly (even if somewhat inappropriate). I want to see a dog that has good bounce back and recovers instantly from a loud noise, novel stimuli or other scary situation. I want to see a dog that immediately seeks contact with strange people, and who is playful rather than reactive to other dogs. I'll say it again, be prepared to walk away from a dog in rescue that doesn't suit your needs - there will be more who need homes just as much but who will be a better fit. Adopt with your head not your heart.

If you are serious about wanting to do sport, I would prioritise a confident outgoing dog who has some natural toy drive (you can increase it but it's easier to start with something that will at least chase a ball naturally). Sport training can be tough on worriers and fearful dogs, and having to perform in a busy and scary new environment at competitions is also a big ask for a worried dog. You want the rambunctious dog who is 'too much dog' for most pet homes - not the worried dog who may look calmer. You can train calm, you can't train brave so easily. Sounds like you have done a great job with counter conditioning your existing dog, but worried dogs are not ideal sport prospects.

Last edited by Kaos; 09-14-2012 at 02:03 AM..

Kaos is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 08:16 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 8,499

Rep: 56 DeeLind7 will become famous soon enough
Unique Rep: 29
Default

Excellent post Kaos!

DeeLind7 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 09:22 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
Lucky Nucky Pie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 191

Rep: 10 Lucky Nucky Pie is on a distinguished road
Unique Rep: 0
Default

Oh thank you so much Kaos. This does really help me and does explain why Oats has never been really interested in doing sports with me and does allow me to forgive him a lot more for not wanting to them with me because I would so so so love to do a sport with Oats, but he would much rather stay at home and play with me, no pressure. And thanks for the compliment about me and my family getting Oats out of his shell!!! He still needs life-long management, for example, new stuff scares him, but his bounce-back is better. He was not able to calm himself down before until he was literally too tired to continue.

So, look for a dog that was just too much happy and too much energy for their existing home. No issues except obedience issues. And loves to play (Oats does't like playing toys too much, so def. I'm excited to finally have a playful dog). I'm so happy that you gave me such clear criteria. You are right, I really have to use my head, not my heart. It might be hard since I do have a lot of heart. But I think it would be easy if I contact the rescue through internet first (once next year rolls around and I'm in a definitely stable situation!!!) Thanks for sharing your experience with me!!!

Lucky Nucky Pie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 09:51 AM   #27
Member
 
Speckle-legged Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 65

Rep: 12 Speckle-legged Dog is on a distinguished road
Unique Rep: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Nucky Pie View Post
Hi, I will be looking for a new dog next year or the year after that since I'm graduating from college soon. I definitely have enough time and support and everything to take care of a new dog by then and if not, then I will postpone such things! I've narrowed my dogs to either the Aussie or the ACD.

My current dog is a chow/dalmatian mix. He is very well trained and behaves beautifully in all environments. He is farm-raised and works very hard by chasing vermin away and guarding the property. He also walks in parades and attends picnics and plays outdoors a lot. I notice his personality type and play style meshes the best with herding breeds that he has met, which is why I'm considering these types of dogs over any others.

I narrowed down to Aussie or ACD because I'm looking for a medium sized dog to do all sorts of dog sports with and really like doing them with me. There is a wonderful Australian Shepherd breeder nearby and Australian Cattle Dogs and their mixes are available in the shelters around the area too. I spend a lot of time outside and love to go, go, go! We have a small herd of around thirty beef cows that get moved from pasture to pasture when we want the grass in one to have a break, so this dog will probably be active in herding as well. However, I am also mostly using a positive reinforcement/negative punishment (clicker training) to teach. And I was told that these breeds would walk all over me due to my method of teaching and that my home doesn't sound optimal. I want to know from the Aussie and/or ACD owners here if my home sounds like a good home for these breeds.
I'm no expert, but your home sounds about perfect. There is a lady in agility class with me and my dog who has 3 Aussies and uses positive training. Two of her dogs compete in agility and are very well-behaved and well-socialized dogs. She's a very petite lady who is very positive with her dogs and they respond well.

Speckle-legged Dog is offline Speckle-legged Dog's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 03:55 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
Kaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 4,293

Rep: 264 Kaos is a jewel in the roughKaos is a jewel in the roughKaos is a jewel in the rough
Unique Rep: 68
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Nucky Pie View Post

So, look for a dog that was just too much happy and too much energy for their existing home. No issues except obedience issues. And loves to play (Oats does't like playing toys too much, so def. I'm excited to finally have a playful dog).
Yes exactly - spot on

Kaos is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 07:43 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Sugardog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,634

Rep: 96 Sugardog will become famous soon enough
Unique Rep: 37
Default

I'll post a picture later of my border giving the "collie eye". But yeah it's more of a stare down strategy to intimidate. It doesnt work as well with cattle just because they're tougher. Aussies and other eye dogs will still nip, but they do rely on intimidation stares more.
__________________
I'm chillin' with the forum!
Thanks Necknot and Sheplovr!
I've been fleeced by Draco!

Sugardog is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 01:58 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
MrJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wilkeson, WA
Posts: 2,178

Rep: 33 MrJohn is on a distinguished road
Unique Rep: 7
Default

I would not consede an aussie an "eye dog". They bark, chase and nip
__________________
Some unfortunate people don't have a dog to talk to.

MrJohn is offline MrJohn's Gallery  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:03 AM.

Shogun Interactive Development Copyright 2006-2015 Shogun Interactive Development. All rights reserved.