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Old 03-13-2007, 01:06 AM   #1
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Default Cropping and the Show Ring

I'm just a little curious about this. I hope (in a far off land..) in the next 1-3 years to be able to purchase a house...and after I purchase my house, I want (and have always wanted) a show-quality Doberman to start competing in conformation, obedience, or whatever I can get into and then go from there. I really don't mind docking...I've done it myself (under the supervision of a vet) but I am not fond of cropping.

Now I know it wouldn't be a problem as far as the sports are concerned...but what about conformation? I believe...although I'm not sure...that you don't have to crop in AKC, but it is expected. How much harder would it be to go into the ring with a natural eared Dobe? Or any normally cropped breeds? I'm not sure if I am willing to put a dog through the pain of ear cropping for some ribbons and a champion in front of it's name.

Any thoughts? If this turns into a debate, please keep it friendly. I'm merely curious, things can change a lot in a few years.

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Old 03-13-2007, 05:28 AM   #2
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Borzoi/Lassie and other's who are more in the know will be able to offer advice re. English KC - and Crufts. HOwever, you cannot enter a dog competition in the UK who has been cropped after April 2007 - so it rather depends upon where you want to show your Dobe. I guess this law will extend universally in time.

I did notice though that there were zillions of dogs at crufts this year from some european countries where it is illegal to crop.

Depends where you want to show really.

Any pictures to show us please?

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Old 03-13-2007, 05:48 AM   #3
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I'm afraid I'm not sure what the rules are in America but I would be interested to find out...

Here in the UK it is already illegal to crop and a tail docking ban is coming into force next month. Times are a-changing!
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Old 03-13-2007, 07:06 AM   #4
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I do not know about Dobe's as I have Boxers. Where Boxers are concerned, the most recent standard revision included a description of the uncropped ear.
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Ears: Set at the highest points of the sides of the skull, the ears are customarily cropped, cut rather long and tapering, and raised when alert. If uncropped, the ears should be of moderate size, thin, lying flat and close to the cheeks in repose, but falling forward with a definite crease when alert.
It is still a bit more difficult to finish an uncropped ear and takes a little longer. Their are still judges out their that will not put up an uncropped dog, no it is not fair, but it happens. However, I am seeing more and more in the ring, and IMO as more breeders choose to show their dogs/bitches uncropped the tides will change and it will become easier. Eventually, uncropped or cropped will get the same amount of consideration.

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Old 03-13-2007, 07:11 AM   #5
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My understanding is that the AKC does not require cropping, but considers it "an acceptable practice integral to defining and preserving breed character and/or enhancing good health." It is also my understanding that AKC judges in the US tend to favor dogs with an appearance that they are used to.
That said it should be noted that there are moves afoot to make cropping and docking illegal, among other places in my own home state of Vermont.
http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=2725
For now the bill seems to be dead but it is only a matter of time until it passes IMO.
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Old 03-13-2007, 07:34 AM   #6
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The Breeder of your Dobe will most likely have your Dobe cropped before you even see it for the first time. Most show breeders of Doberman's crop thier pups. My Dobe Rudy was cropped before we purchased him by his breeder's Vet.

To be honest with you, you will do better in the AKC rshow riungs if your dog is cropped. Comformation showing is like a beauty pagent and cropped Doberman's just look better ( of course that is my opnion but it is also the opnion of most judges in the AKC and Canadian Kennel club ).

When I had time I use to go to a fair number of shows and you will see that most Dobeman's showing probably 99% are cropped. Nearly 100% of the time a cropped Dobe will win the class.

I wish people would get thier facts straight on cropping, it is not what people make it out to be, in my honest humble opinion. I have had all my Dobes cropped ( except Jenna she is a rescue ) and they suffered no ill effects from cropping. I went through all the posting and taping, the only discomfort they feel is right after the surgery and it is very little, they play and do everything a non-cropped pup would do. The stitches come out after 7-10 days , the ears are fully healed at that point and then you just need to post the ears for the next few weeks.

I have very good article on the posting and cropping if you would like to read it I can post it for you.

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Old 03-13-2007, 07:57 AM   #7
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If you truely do not like cropping then go with your heart. You will not feel any sense of achievement in buying a puppy with cropped ears just for the show ring if in your heart of hearts you don't agree with it. If it takes you longer to get your title then so be it. You;re the one that has to live with your decision no one else. If winning is all that is important to you then don't get any animal for show.
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Old 03-13-2007, 09:18 AM   #8
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With the greatest of respect hasn't the 'cropping' ears and tails been done and done on Dogforum.org. Everyone has their own opinions and for every article one member posts another can post to counter the argument.

I have zillions of veterinary articles stating that tail and ear cropping is cruel and a mutilation - I've tried to force my opinions on people and it doesn't work because we all have our own personal views. Its like religion - you can't force your beliefs on another.

Can we just keep the thread to the original poster's queries regarding showing, etc., it will save arguments and respect others opinions. As most people know I am against docking and cropping but that is my opinion and I respect those own want to have their dogs cropped or docked. I am willing to post but not if it gets into another argument and we all put our fingers into gear before thinking of other's views and upset other members.

I hope this makes sense and I don't want to offend anyone.

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Old 03-13-2007, 09:30 AM   #9
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Thanks Carole.

I see no other references to anything other then what the OP asked for.

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Old 03-14-2007, 04:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Areias View Post
...Now I know it wouldn't be a problem as far as the sports are concerned...but what about conformation? I believe...although I'm not sure...that you don't have to crop in AKC, but it is expected. How much harder would it be to go into the ring with a natural eared Dobe? Or any normally cropped breeds? I'm not sure if I am willing to put a dog through the pain of ear cropping for some ribbons and a champion in front of it's name.

Any thoughts? If this turns into a debate, please keep it friendly. I'm merely curious, things can change a lot in a few years.
From the DPCA Judges' Education website:

Quote:
Ears are normally cropped and carried erect. “Normally cropped” means cropped in a normal manner. Normally cropped does not mean “usually cropped.” Cropped ears will always be carried erect on a fully mature Doberman. The upper attachment of the ear to the head should be level with the top of the backskull when the dog is alert. The shape of cropped ears can vary because veterinarians exert their own vision on the final shape...
Quote:
From his inception, the Doberman has been cropped. It is an essential breed characteristic. Cropped ears impart an appearance of alertness, determination, and watchfulness, and they aid in multi-directional hearing. In our standard, we do not describe an uncropped ear because this is a cropped breed. Dobermans with uncropped ears deviate from the standard twice — first by not having cropped ears, as required by the standard, and second by not having an erect ear carriage.
http://www.dpca.org/JEC/illustrated_.../Head/head.htm
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