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Old 02-14-2008, 04:55 PM   #1
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Hi
i am getting a sheltie in a few weeks and i was wondering for future reference if i decide to breed her is there a rule on what colour can breed with what colour?

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Old 02-14-2008, 06:37 PM   #2
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Breeding shelties takes years of experience do to correctly. Not only can you not breed the merles together, sometimes you can't see if a dog has a merle gene. Also, you shouldn't probably breed white factored dogs together, and this can't always be seen either.

In addition, there are numerous genetic illnesses in the breed you have to be aware of. You'll need to know the health history and color history of every dog in your dog's pedigree. Then, you'll need to get your dog's hips certified and eyes certified.

Then, you'll need to do the same for the father.

In addition, responsible breeders only breed the very best of the breed. So, you'll want to do conformation or other performance events to see if your dog really is breeding stock worthy.

Then, you'll need to get a contract written for any future puppy buyers and be ready to take back the puppy for any reason down the line. That means if the dog is 10 years old, you'll be responsible for taking back that puppy and rehoming it.

Also, you'll need to find other established and responsible sheltie breeders to become your mentor and learn under for several years before breeding. And, you'll want to wait till the dog is at least three before breeding to make sure it isn't carrying some of the genetic diseases I mentioned (although three certainly won't rule them all out).

Then, you'll also need to fully understand the sheltie standard to be able to pick out a good stud dog. And you'll have to be willing to fork over possibly thousands in vet bills if something goes wrong. And, youll have to become well versed in doggy pregnancy and how to properly raise the pups during the 8 to 10 weeks they're in your care. Shelties unsocialized tend to be very shy, so doing some of Volhard's puppy early puppy training is almost essential for the sheltie.

And, you'll have to evaluate your dog's personality as well. As shelties can be very shy, those dogs should NEVER be bred. The breed suffers from inherited fear issues, and only outgoing, fear free, not shy shelties should be bred.

And, this is only the very teeny tiny tip of the breeding iceburg. Responsible breeders do all the above and more. Back yard breeders (which is a huge slur) don't, and the shelters are filled with their offspring.

So, if your dog turns out to be one of the best of the breed, then you might consider breeding. Otherwise, leave it to those for who it is their lives missions to better the sheltie breed.

BTW, I have three shelties - all from responsible breeders. One is an agility champion. I would NEVER breed him. The amount of knowledge to do it properly is too, too involved. I'll stick to showing and loving the dogs that other spend their lives work breeding.

Lastly, do a search on "breeding" or "breeders" on this board. It will open your eyes to what's involved to do it right and have healthy puppies. And, read the recent thread on color disqualifications. It will give you tons of info.

Here's a site that begins to explain some of the color genetics of shelties. If you don't understand it all completely, then don't even think about breeding.

http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/DogPage.html
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Old 02-14-2008, 10:13 PM   #3
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Just do alot of your own research and know the breed inside and out. Having hips done is highly important. I do not feel you personally need to show to prove you have the best of the best.???

I do not show mine and have absolutly NO problem selling puppies for a nice price, but not overly priced. I keep them high enough no body would pay that and give a bad home, besides I make my own contracts, warrantys, references to check and never had a problem.

I have shipped pups all over the U.S. Pups are in many fields of working ablilities as I import from V-VA rated parents from Germany and other countries of show and working titles. Therefore it is passed into the puppies.

Every breed has a problem, it is your job to try and breed this out of the lines or get lines that do not have a problem, this is like findng a needle in a haystack so to speak. No perfect set of parents can be guaranteed to not slip a gene of some sort from far back. Therefore, warrantys come in place.

No body ever returns a ten year old dog or even a year old pet. I have never encountered this ever or any problems. I try and research the lines best I can far back as possible, but nothing is 100 per cent EVER!!!

Just know your lines, what crosses best for color, temperment, if they are to work, show, etc. Do not be intimadated by bad Breeders and people telling things that often never happen. Buying a good set of parents at first should cost you and u get warrantys also on each one.

Just know what your getting into in breeding as puppies can be heart breaking to sit up all night long and loose a pup or two for no real reason as I have had them tested costly me plenty only to find no real reason for death. GOD has plans for some, some live and sometimes one dies. It is alot of dedication, work, expense and just being very experienced in breeding, knowing lines, knowing what your goals are and going for it. First few years will be totally tough, trust me. No matter what you pay and do, things happen.

I wish you the best and hope you succeed in something you truly want to get involved in....
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Old 02-14-2008, 11:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheplovr View Post
J
No body ever returns a ten year old dog or even a year old pet. I have never encountered this ever or any problems. I try and research the lines best I can far back as possible, but nothing is 100 per cent EVER!!!
I take it you don't have a return clause in your contract. I won't buy a puppy from a breeder who doesn't have one. I want to know that if something happens to me, my dogs will automatically have the breeder behind them to help my remaining family members find them the right homes. I look for a breeder who INSISTS that I return the dogs to her if I can no longer care for them. I consider it a part of responsible breeding.

My breeder has gotten back older dogs because the owners could no longer take care of them due to health, finance, etc.. She finds them great new homes, and they don't clog the shelters.

So, yes, it does, and should, happen.
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Old 02-15-2008, 12:20 AM   #5
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Well maybe to some but NOT yet to me, I make sure I sell my puppies to great homes in the first place.

It is totally ridiculous to think somebody would return an aged dog to rehome.???

Your not even a Breeder to be discussing such things, and yes of course I have a return policy.,.?????????
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:16 AM   #6
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I think my post sounded harsher than I intended. Let's see if I can try without insulting shep.

By return clause, I'm not talking about returning a puppy after a year or two due to genetic issues. I know many breeders have that clause. I'm talking about a contract that I sign that says if I can no longer care for the dog for the lifetime of the dog, the breeder will get the dog back to rehome. I do know of breeders who also have a LIFETIME genetic guarentee too, although I don't expect this. All I expect from a breeder is a tone or wo year genetic guarantee and a lifetime return if I can no longer care for my dogs. I think this is what a responsible breeder does. This isn't a slam at shep, just a general statement.

I want my dogs covered in case something happens to me. I know they will never wind up in a shelter because I have a breeder who will take them back if I die and find them great homes. This is important to me. And, yes, my breeder is VERY careful about who gets her dogs...to an extreme.

I hope this is less inflamatory, and I'm sorry shep if I sounded harsh in the first post. I have to say re-reading it I don't see how it sounds harsh, but by your reaction and wunderhunds, it must. The written word isn't perfect as you cannot hear the tone in which I intended it, which wasn't to accuse at all but explain why I said a 10 year old dog does and should be returned to a breeder.

Hope this explains it better.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:47 AM   #7
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Here is the clause I'm referring to. This came from a pet quality contract.

"Should the purchaser for any reason be unable to keep this animal, the purchaser shall immediately contact the vendor and return the animal to the vendor. Under no circumstances shall this animal be sold or given to another party without the express written consent and knowledge of the vendor. Should the vendor agree to the placement of this animal, the purchaser shall ensure that it is placed in a new home under the same terms and conditions as outlined in paragraphs (2) through (6) above (inclusive)."

This clause is very important to me and I believe part of a good breeder's contract. It protects my dogs from winding up in homes I wouldn't approve of or in a shelter. I honestly think it's a must. This is for the lifetime of the dog.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:47 PM   #8
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Thank you Agility I understand and was not really meaning to be rude as stated, just stating a point also. We always get along on here and nobody needs to remind us of that. I would most certainly honor that reason as you explained.

I would never want one of my pups left out in the cold so to speak. I give a very lengthy contract in detail and warrantys also. I do all I can to protect the lil babies I birthed too and raised or started good, so I want them to have a wonderful life.

Thanks and no hard feelings honey, I am not one to fight, just make a point and at times I do mistunderstand first to admit that. Peace!!
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:47 PM   #9
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All is well. Glad we're back on good ground.
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Old 02-15-2008, 06:58 PM   #10
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Hi rach, u never told me u were getting a sheltie puppy in a few weeks, did you forget to mention that to ur best friend???

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