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-   -   Suddenly refusing his crate? (http://www.dogforum.net/dog-training/38582-suddenly-refusing-his-crate.html)

WolfieX 07-25-2014 10:39 PM

Suddenly refusing his crate?
 
Hey guys I have a question about crates and dogs!


I have always crate trained my dogs and it definitely comes in handy!! Recently, we took in another puppy of a smaller breed. Our older dog has always gone into his crate with the command "Crate" with no problems, until recently... Suddenly when you say "Crate" he lays down and refuses. If you try to pick him up, he runs into the living room floor and flops down again, or will peek you from the corner. He is a one year old male, altered. German Shepherd and Belgian mallinoise on his dads side, Lab and pit mix on his mothers side, a VERY smart dog and strong so he is hard to force into his crate on the occassions where we have no choice because we are making an outing and won't be home.
What I wanted to know, is there ANY way this could be because of the new puppy? That is about the time it happened, the puppy has his own crate nearby.

My first thought is maybe he is having puberty issues and pushing or testing his limits again but he still seems submissive, when we go to get his collar he just rolls on his back for us. Is it just plain refusal? His cage is big enough for him to stand, turn around in and eat in as should be... The only difference with the cage is that he ruined his bed and we have still not replaced it.
Also, he has began to bark/howl during his stay in his kennel which he did as a young pup but he phased out of it (I thought) We rent this house and when our lease is up we were planning to move to a different location...But it is a MUST for a well behaved dog again as many pet owners understand that it is hard to find new homes with pets, especially a big dog like this one.

FrodoMom 07-26-2014 11:11 AM

Is it possible that maybe you took the crate apart and he saw you do it? We used to have a collapsible crate and my dog at that time saw me fold it up and move it so I could clean the floor under it. He would not go in that crate again after that. I figured he must have been really smart to have figured that out! Luckily we didn't need to use the crate so much by that point.
Does your puppy have the ability to play fun find it games? Maybe you can make a game out of crate time but not close the door on him until he becomes comfortable with it.
I was told by my dog trainer to never use the crate as punishment, but I have had to place my border collie pup in time out because he would not leave his older brother alone.

JGLI 07-26-2014 02:09 PM

This is fairly common if the dog has been frightened by something in/on/near the crate or somehow pinched or injured himself, it is possible he could have done something like that? I have also heard of people successfully reintroducing the crate after it has been thoroughly washed and bedding changed.

WolfieX 07-27-2014 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrodoMom (Post 408219)
Is it possible that maybe you took the crate apart and he saw you do it? We used to have a collapsible crate and my dog at that time saw me fold it up and move it so I could clean the floor under it. He would not go in that crate again after that. I figured he must have been really smart to have figured that out! Luckily we didn't need to use the crate so much by that point.
Does your puppy have the ability to play fun find it games? Maybe you can make a game out of crate time but not close the door on him until he becomes comfortable with it.
I was told by my dog trainer to never use the crate as punishment, but I have had to place my border collie pup in time out because he would not leave his older brother alone.

The dog I meant was having issues is actually our one year old male dog, though he has figured out that his crate can move and so forth maybe I will try to reintroduce it like the below comment says (: Sounds like that may be a good idea!

WolfieX 07-27-2014 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGLI (Post 408224)
This is fairly common if the dog has been frightened by something in/on/near the crate or somehow pinched or injured himself, it is possible he could have done something like that? I have also heard of people successfully reintroducing the crate after it has been thoroughly washed and bedding changed.

Reintroducing it with a new bedding sounds like a good plan! I will need to try this to see if it helps. We also found that if we crate the 2 side by side it helps as well (on both ends) but I worry about if one has to be left home alone without the other so Id like to avoid this lol.
He might have injured himself or pinched himself because we did find that his top part of his collapsable crate was unhinged. Will let everybody know how it goes!

Bigboy 07-27-2014 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrodoMom (Post 408219)
Is it possible that maybe you took the crate apart and he saw you do it? We used to have a collapsible crate and my dog at that time saw me fold it up and move it so I could clean the floor under it. He would not go in that crate again after that. I figured he must have been really smart to have figured that out! Luckily we didn't need to use the crate so much by that point.
Does your puppy have the ability to play fun find it games? Maybe you can make a game out of crate time but not close the door on him until he becomes comfortable with it.
I was told by my dog trainer to never use the crate as punishment, but I have had to place my border collie pup in time out because he would not leave his older brother alone.

It could be that in fact he can be trusted and doesn't need the crate now?
While they have their uses they should be a temporary thing in a dogs life :)

WolfieX 07-27-2014 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigboy (Post 408233)
It could be that in fact he can be trusted and doesn't need the crate now?
While they have their uses they should be a temporary thing in a dogs life :)

Unfortunately he still has not matured enough to be trusted alone. I believe it is about 3 years before he will mature due to his breed, our previous GSD did not mature out of her puppy phase until about 3 years of age. He is fine when supervised, but when we sleep or we leave the house he must be crated so he doesn't get into things.
We've attempted to leave him out on occassions at night and woke up to chewed clothing (chewed them completely in half lol) rumaging through our trash can and so on. We have also tried to let him stay in the living room with everything blocked off when we went on a quick errand and came back to him destroying the trash and ripped up a cushion lol!!!
As soon as he is able though we plan to upgrade the puppy to his crate and let Fox roam the house freely without supervision, sadly still a ways off though.

Bigboy 07-27-2014 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfieX (Post 408234)
Unfortunately he still has not matured enough to be trusted alone. I believe it is about 3 years before he will mature due to his breed, our previous GSD did not mature out of her puppy phase until about 3 years of age. He is fine when supervised, but when we sleep or we leave the house he must be crated so he doesn't get into things.
We've attempted to leave him out on occassions at night and woke up to chewed clothing (chewed them completely in half lol) rumaging through our trash can and so on. We have also tried to let him stay in the living room with everything blocked off when we went on a quick errand and came back to him destroying the trash and ripped up a cushion lol!!!
As soon as he is able though we plan to upgrade the puppy to his crate and let Fox roam the house freely without supervision, sadly still a ways off though.

Understandable what also helps when the day comes is to make sure there are plenty of toys he can chew on to keep him occupied and when he is out of crate start redirection training should he try to get to something he shouldn't be in. One toy in particular which is so far proving to be indestructable is a Booma Ball I had one given to me a while back and Nipper loves it and it's solid and Nipper can't figure out how to burst it or shred it but always has a good go at it LOL HTH :)

FrodoMom 07-27-2014 11:36 AM

My 7 month old border collie can't be trusted quite yet because he chews on furniture and can evade all baby gates. He is extremely agile! I really hope to have him be done with chewing soon because I'm afraid he will ingest something bad.
I have modified my schedule so that he doesn't have to be in there for a long time, so I feel like I'm back to being a new mom with toddler children! I took on this responsibility so I just have to deal with it. But I'm missing those long mileage bike rides and the freedom I used to have.

JGLI 07-27-2014 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigboy (Post 408233)
It could be that in fact he can be trusted and doesn't need the crate now?
While they have their uses they should be a temporary thing in a dogs life :)

Just to clarify, the use of a crate should not be a temporary thing. The benefits of crate training are evident throughout a dog's life. Dogs are often hospitalized, recuperating at home, need to travel, and situations arise where the dog may need to be isolated or confined. As well, the crate is the dog's
"safe area". A dog may not always need a crate to curb destructive behaviors or for potty training purposes, but the crate will have multiple uses and once a dog is comfortably crate trained, the crate need not be removed.

FrodoMom 07-27-2014 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGLI (Post 408241)
Just to clarify, the use of a crate should not be a temporary thing. The benefits of crate training are evident throughout a dog's life. Dogs are often hospitalized, recuperating at home, need to travel, and situations arise where the dog may need to be isolated or confined. As well, the crate is the dog's
"safe area". A dog may not always need a crate to curb destructive behaviors or for potty training purposes, but the crate will have multiple uses and once a dog is comfortably crate trained, the crate need not be removed.

My puppy goes in his crate on his own at bedtime. I just wish I could find a chew proof dog bed! He tore up a really nice one.:(

Dunbar's Mom 07-27-2014 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGLI (Post 408241)
Just to clarify, the use of a crate should not be a temporary thing. The benefits of crate training are evident throughout a dog's life. Dogs are often hospitalized, recuperating at home, need to travel, and situations arise where the dog may need to be isolated or confined. As well, the crate is the dog's
"safe area". A dog may not always need a crate to curb destructive behaviors or for potty training purposes, but the crate will have multiple uses and once a dog is comfortably crate trained, the crate need not be removed.

I agree with JGLI. Our Rosie had a crate and it was her "safe place". Though she was a friendly dog, when we had a big family gathering, she would often go in her crate. Sometimes she would lie there and stare at me until I closed the gate, and then she would curl up and go to sleep. She was a big dog...GSD/Great Pyranees and her crate was one of those big plastic sided crates with the vents on the side and the wire gate on the front. It was definitely her "safe cave".

Kyllobernese 07-27-2014 05:47 PM

Kris, my Doberman, is almost 18 months old and she still sleeps in her crate at night or if I am going out. She is quite happy to go in there, usually puts herself to bed at night so I see no reason for her to be loose to get into trouble.

She also always travels in her crate in the Van so I don't have to worry what she is doing when I am driving.

Bigboy 07-27-2014 07:47 PM

I personaly don't have a problem with Nipper not being in a crate she is now over 8 years old and if she is traveling in the car she will sit nicely in the foot well she will stay on the couch at night and nothing is touched including the sofa where she is lying on niot because of luck but training her how ever i do understand that some times a crate may be useful :)

JGLI 07-27-2014 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigboy (Post 408250)
I personaly don't have a problem with Nipper not being in a crate she is now over 8 years old and if she is traveling in the car she will sit nicely in the foot well she will stay on the couch at night and nothing is touched including the sofa where she is lying on niot because of luck but training her how ever i do understand that some times a crate may be useful :)

You are, however, overlooking the benefits of having a crate trained dog whether you choose to use one with your dog or not. Airplanes, trains, etc. do not have a "foot" where a dog is permitted to sit. If your dog is hospitalized at any time she will be crated and you can make such an event much easier on your dog and on your vet and the staff by having your dog crate trained. Such situations are already stressful enough for dogs without the added burden of coping with the crate as a scary, new experience instead of a familiar "safe" place. In times of natural disasters or other emergency events--such as those of us who have been through hurricanes understand all too well--it may well be that the dog has to be evacuated either to a designated animal shelter where it will be in a crate or to a shelter with you/its owners and it will not be permitted to accompany you without a crate. All are informed reasons not to discourage any dog owner from crate training their dog. My dogs at ages 16, 14, 11 1/2, and 1, as well as every other dog I have had with family have all been crate trained though they did not require it for curbing any undesirable behaviors nor after potty training was complete so that age is a non-issue.

Kaos 07-27-2014 09:58 PM

JGLI is right, having a crate trained dog is a huge advantage. One of my dogs recently spent a week in the vet hospital, and had more than enough stress to deal with without worrying about how to settle calmly in a crate. Because he was trained to get in and out on cue, it was much easier for staff to toilet him, and less stressful for him because he did not need to be manhandled.

To address the OP's question, we can only speculate about why there is a sudden change, but it doesn't much matter. What matters is what you do about it. I would start immediately retraining him. If you aren't sure how to go about this, I would recommend getting hold of a copy of Susan Garrett's Crate Games DVD. If you really want to speed things up, I would also feed all meals in the crate for a while.

You want to avoid grabbing his collar to drag him into the crate, this is a great way to get bitten.

Bigboy 08-04-2014 02:33 PM

Test!

JGLI 08-15-2014 04:19 PM

Good quick reference on crates:

Crate Training Dogs - PawNation


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