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Old 12-01-2007, 05:04 PM   #1
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Exclamation What Makes A Reputable Breeder- Opinions.

So, in everyones own opinion, what makes a reputable breeder?

For example, would a reputable breeder lose contact with someone who had bought a pup in the past? What about over several years? 10 years later?

Does a reputable breeder do genetic testing, and many other tests prior to breeding?

Why does a breeder breed to begin with?

Would a reputable breeder advertise in the newspaper that they have pups for sale at a reasonable price? How about to advertise they want a stud for services? Or that they have a available stud for services?

Would a reputable breeder know all they can of their breeds history, and genetic issues prior to breeding?

What sort of services do you expect from your breeder after you purchase a puppy?

Do you label a breeder 'non-reputable' if you see their advertisement of 'only two puppies left! Hurry!' ..?

If a friend of yours decided to breed their family pet- a dog that they had purchased to be their pet and nothing more, and then one day on a whim starts thinking of breeding- what would you do? Guide them through it? Try to talk them out of it? Avoid talking about it at all costs?

Does a reputable breeder show their quality canines, and has for several years before even considering the fact of breeding? Or, after the breeding has already been complete- they start looking in to showing, and other events?

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So, I just want to know your opinions. I have some people, not joined members, more just people I know personally that are interested in the topic but are too lazy ( ) or shy to join- so any and ALL opinions are welcome, please and thank you.

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Old 12-01-2007, 06:37 PM   #2
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Ok since I consider myself a reputable breeder I will answer. In my eyes a reputable breeder is someone who knows their breed, has a goal in mind, works their dogs in some time of proven work for what ever goal they have for their breeding program, health tests their dogs, offers garentees, requires spay/neuter non breeding contracts, will take back a pup of their breednig at any time, Is always there to answer questions and help for teh life of the dogs, Does all they can to esure the puppies have teh best possible start in life, is very strict and stringent about who they adopt a pup out to.

I think that list gives you a basic idea. I could add a lot more. Like for my adopters I will be ivnig them a $100 dollar rebate for getting their pup OFA hips and elbows so I know what Sheena is producing in her lines. I require all teh pups to go to puppy classes between 4 & 6 months of age, all adopters of my pups got a huge binder of advice, training, health and food tips, a puppy kennel, collar and lead, one week of food that the pup was on, pedigree, CKC registration, pictures and videos and smaple bottles of shampoo and conditioning spritz and all pups were microchipped.

To answer your questions:
1. It is possible to lose contact with adopters even if you are a reputable breeder. Our hope is that we don't but since we can not control another persons life it can happen.

2. Yes a reputable breeder does health tests.

3. That all depends on the breeder. My goal is to produce pups with the potential to be Service Dog candidates. These pups I donate to trainers for them to train and donate to people in need of these dogs.

4. This is a tough one. To me a reputable breeder will have a long waiting list. This past litter was my first and I had a long waiting list of homes and families. I already have a waiting list for Sheena's next litter in 2009. But even with a wiating list there could be reasons to advertise. For example if the buyers back out, or if you have a litter off only one sex(like I did, but my adopters were fine with that) and most wanted the other sex. Things like that could suddenly leave a reputable breeder having extra pups without homes. As long as they still do the home checks and reference checks and so on then I am ok with it.

5. Yes they should know their breeds history and the genetic problems in the breed and also be continueing to learn because that never stops.

6. Always there for help and advice. To take the pup back if there is a need for that, to back up their contract if something arises.

7. I don't like the sound of that. It sounds like they will sell to the first people with the money instead of matching to the right home. So yes I would label them.

8. I have had to deal with this before. I would do my best to educate them on why they should not and if they wanted to breed in the future how to do it right.

9. To me showing is not the be all and end all of if a dog is breeding quality. But I do think the dog should be up to structure standard and worked in some way. For example I am breeding to hopefully get Service Dogs. Sheena is a Service Dog. So she is worked in teh field that is my goal for breeding for. But to show how versatile she is she also does agility and flyball. Ajax is in training to be a Service Dog and we do plan to show him next year and also put him into flyball and agility. So if you are breeding for hunting dogs then you should be working your dogs in that field. If for show dogs then that field, at the very least.



Sorry so long.
Nicole & Ronan
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Old 12-01-2007, 07:23 PM   #3
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Great job, thank you very much. I knew I could depend on you for an amazing, outstanding post that was precise and to the point, while genuinely helpful. Thanks.

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Old 12-01-2007, 07:30 PM   #4
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This is just a small part of what I consider a reputible breeder.

They show in the breed in some aspect - sport, conformation, etc. They have learned for several years under mentors BEFORE beginning to breed. They have an in-depth understanding of genetics, especially as it relates to their breed. They know the breed standard backwards and forwards. They especially understand temperment in their breed and how genetics can affect it. They know their dog's ancestory and all the genetic health issues in the pedigree - as well as the dog's mate. They have their dogs completely tested for all genetic issues (hips, thyroid, eyes, or whatever other issues are in the breed).

For most breeds, they understand how to train their breed to high levels (like UD in obedience or MX in agility). They are willing to take back any pup at any age that they reproduce and rehome it. In fact, they demand that in their contract. They carefully screen potential puppy buyers - not only for home life but for training philosophies as well. They make puppy buyers sign contracts that force the puppy to be spayed or neutered, and only allow show prospects (unaltered) to go to homes that will also know how to breed.

They do their best to stay in contact with the puppies out there they've produced. They get great satisfaction out of the accomplishments of their puppies, whether it's as small as a CGC or as large as a National Championship. They are zelous about their line. They should not advertise in the paper.

Also, they should only have a few litters a year. Litters need TONS of attention from the breeder for proper socialization. If a breeder is having many litters a year, this is not possible. A responsible breeder will also INSIST the puppies NOT go home until they are between eight to 10 weeks old - with 10 being mroe desirable.

And, if a friend of mine decided to breed a dog they had gotten as a pet, I would sit them down and have a chat with them. I would also take them to a shelter and try to arrange to have them view a euthainsia. They need to have their eyes opened. For every Back Yard Breeder who has a litter of puppies, they have killed off that many dogs in a shelter somewhere, because there just aren't enough homes for all the dogs. It's a harsh statement, but none the less true. All breeders need to understand that, and realzie it when they breed. It doesn't mean a reputible breeder working to better his/her breed shouldn't breed, but they need to do so with their eyes open. Are they just putting pet home pups out there, or are they really breeding for the right reasons, which IMO, would include sport and show. And, yes, in the attempt to bree for sport and show, you WILL have pet quality pups.

So, should someone be breeding who is not active in showing their dogs at some level or breeding for a working/performance purpose?

No.
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:00 PM   #5
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Excellent post NIcole!

An ethical breeder in my opinion should also be heavily involved in the local breed club (if there is one) and a member in good standing with the parent club. Memberships in these clubs provide an always available support system, ongoing education into many aspects of the breed including health studies and research, a code of ethics, breeders guidelines and much more.

As far as advertising puppies for sale in the newspaper I'm completely against it since most individuals that are reading the ads are looking for a puppy to take home that same day. The majority aren't prepared for the third degree they're going to get from a breeder who does their utmost to see that their puppies are carefully placed in the proper home!

If a prospective home falls thorough (and it does happen) that breeder should be prepared to keep and work with that puppy until a legitimate, qualified referral comes along. The rest of that puppy's life depends on putting as much thought and effort into finding the perfect home as was put into planning the breeding.
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agilityk9trainer View Post
This is just a small part of what I consider a reputible breeder.

They show in the breed in some aspect - sport, conformation, etc. They have learned for several years under mentors BEFORE beginning to breed. They have an in-depth understanding of genetics, especially as it relates to their breed. They know the breed standard backwards and forwards. They especially understand temperment in their breed and how genetics can affect it. They know their dog's ancestory and all the genetic health issues in the pedigree - as well as the dog's mate. They have their dogs completely tested for all genetic issues (hips, thyroid, eyes, or whatever other issues are in the breed).

For most breeds, they understand how to train their breed to high levels (like UD in obedience or MX in agility). They are willing to take back any pup at any age that they reproduce and rehome it. In fact, they demand that in their contract. They carefully screen potential puppy buyers - not only for home life but for training philosophies as well. They make puppy buyers sign contracts that force the puppy to be spayed or neutered, and only allow show prospects (unaltered) to go to homes that will also know how to breed.

They do their best to stay in contact with the puppies out there they've produced. They get great satisfaction out of the accomplishments of their puppies, whether it's as small as a CGC or as large as a National Championship. They are zelous about their line. They should not advertise in the paper.

Also, they should only have a few litters a year. Litters need TONS of attention from the breeder for proper socialization. If a breeder is having many litters a year, this is not possible. A responsible breeder will also INSIST the puppies NOT go home until they are between eight to 10 weeks old - with 10 being mroe desirable.

And, if a friend of mine decided to breed a dog they had gotten as a pet, I would sit them down and have a chat with them. I would also take them to a shelter and try to arrange to have them view a euthainsia. They need to have their eyes opened. For every Back Yard Breeder who has a litter of puppies, they have killed off that many dogs in a shelter somewhere, because there just aren't enough homes for all the dogs. It's a harsh statement, but none the less true. All breeders need to understand that, and realzie it when they breed. It doesn't mean a reputible breeder working to better his/her breed shouldn't breed, but they need to do so with their eyes open. Are they just putting pet home pups out there, or are they really breeding for the right reasons, which IMO, would include sport and show. And, yes, in the attempt to bree for sport and show, you WILL have pet quality pups.

So, should someone be breeding who is not active in showing their dogs at some level or breeding for a working/performance purpose?

No.
Great post!
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:09 PM   #7
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For me as a buyer it's important to see 1. Health checks 2. temperamentel tests and the coronation we have in sweden on the working and hunting breeds 3. Merites (working competetion prices ex guard duty, sniffing, tracking etc) this so I know that I get a dog that most things are done for to be the dog I mentally and physicly want. Also if I don't feel a good connection with the breeder I would never buy a dog. She should know her lines and when I speak to a breeder if she can't talk about what she wants with her lines, her goal, her vision, and point out the different things between her dogs and how she wants to combine them to reach the goals I usually don't think of buying. Ive been wanting a pure breed rott, but everytime I have found a breeder and is waiting for a pup a homeless dog has shown up that needs a home. Not that Ive looked but they have kinda fallen in my lap. If I coun't missy now that is the 3rd time..

I also want a breeder that can explain how her line works, what drives her lines within the working area. This so I can lean on her if I get a brainfreeze or encounter something I havent before. Oh and I love a breeder who do puppylitter get togethers.

My flatcoat's breeder had get togethers every 3 month and we had a mailinglist between us puppyowners so we could all keep in touch and show photos and updates on training, misseries, success, catastrophies so we were all giving eachother supports and tips. That was really nice.
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:54 PM   #8
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All people need to do is check my web site, read testimonials, guest book signings from all over the world how great my dogs are, they know the lines. Look at litter page of adults grown up and sent me photos of their pets. I sell Pet Quality only restricted papers because a breeder pup may take 5 to 6 litters before one is good enough to reproduce and they will pay double the $1,000 for pet quality family pets to work. A person with one or two years with a breed is NOT a Breeder, it does take years of trial and error to see what lines cross well for what your goals are set for. Of course you can breed a female that is reproductive, this is so wrong even sending out to a top stud, it does not constitude a litter of working dogs or show dogs. How would one know because titled parents, I buy pups from Germany and European countries from V and VA Titled parents this sure does not guarantee me a pup that will do what I am achieving to reach in my goals set forth. I have lost track of the dogs I have put out in great homes in many states because they did not work out or had a health issue. I have sold a puppy to the Finance Advisor for the NFL, A Pa Senator, pet quality only for family pets like their child is.
I have bred dogs since 1965, but West German Shepherds since 1995. I had set goals, researched and had Germans live in my home to school me right from wrong. So, I feel I have accomplished many things, to keep the standard clean and forth right, to put down great Temperments to work, and be family members. I have not ever heard of one of my pups being mean or not working out. I give great warrantys for hips n elbows to certify with OFA, one full year on disease. To refund or replace the pup. So, not going into all my life details, I am known to flight pups I condition well for this to Ca to Fl, state to state I have pups in with weathly, and medium families so happy. I have not even posted all testamonials up I have so many, but read them and it will answer what I am not going to write to start this forum up again. I have nothing to hide nor argue about anymore, I am who I am and know what I am doing and will do further more for my breed. Yes, pups work, in all fields says what all they are doing on front page, I personally do not compete, but do take for Therapy for elderly and ill children locally, I am known for this here. Obedience, they do it well and if I were younger I would compete for I would never pay anybody to show my animals just as I did not my horses. I and my two daughters did it all, trained and bred and showed with many accomplishments as I am doing with dogs without traveling now.!
I have no time to sit and write all my accomplishments, do keep in touch, but do also forget until they call or email me. I am always here for all my people. In fact I help people with other breeds that email me for advice.
I am NOT a writer!! I do not want my pups to be trained and mess up in public when children pop up and startle the dog as it is trained to accept all things. I want steady continuance in breeding good puppies as I have been and will continue to do and Yes, I am a Good Breeder that does not do this for money but for love of all night long whelping, loosing puppies, and heartbreaks that come along with being a Breeder.
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Old 12-07-2007, 04:58 PM   #9
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This site has some valuable information on what constistutes successful breeding. It is about as well-written as anything I have seen.
Quote:
The breeder's pledge must be to harbor and safeguard the breed. No breed is in perfect shape when the breeder happens upon it and none shall be perfect when they leave. But to leave a breed in better shape than it was when you came upon it is the greatest compliment. To improve type, movement, temperament and health must be the bottom line for every committed breeder.

Such accomplishment takes a long-range plan that is carefully thought through. It requires dedication and purpose. All too often, we are sidetracked by our desire to breed to the latest big winner, and then to the next and the next. Before long the pedigree is a long list of "who's who" that have no relationship to each other, other than they found success in the ring. What is key to learn (and to believe) is success in the ring is not an automatic indication of the dog's true quality. We all wish one indicated the other but that is too easy. It would require the removal of human fallacy to be accomplished!
http://www.pwcca.org/art_7foundtns.html
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Old 12-07-2007, 05:42 PM   #10
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Thank you skunkstripe. I find that very informative and helpful... exactly what I made this thread for. Not to argue and try to start fights.

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