Help with counting calories? - Page 2 - DogForum.net

DeeLind7 · 02-10-2013, 12:07 PM

buddymiller, I never really counted calories. My vet said his proper weight should be between 9 to 12 pounds. I went by what was on the bag of Blue Buffalo and the canned Canidae. I measured out his food, and fed him 3 times a day, instead of 2. Cut out all high calorie snacks, and no more chew bones, period. I had started out by only feeding him twice a day, but he always "seemed" hungry. By spacing his meals out to 3 times a day, he seemed more satisfied. Now that he's at a normal weight, I feed him twice a day, morning and evening. I still give him veggies and table food, but, when I measure out his food, the chicken breast, steak, or veggies, are part of that measurment. That means less kibble or wet dog food. He still gets some treats during the week, but I make my own, so I know exactly what's in them. He of course loves raw carrots, and baked sweet potatoes. I'm still looking for a "fat" picture of him to post.

buddymiller · 02-10-2013, 01:05 PM

I saw a big difference in Carli yesterday. I thought it was all in my head but my husband noticed it too. She seemed to have more energ and was up playing more.
I did feed her the 3 times instead of 2 and upped the amount to 1/4 each feeding. I have some of the wellness health weight still here so I halfed it with the Blue so she would consume so many more calories. One of her meals was about 1/4 or even less of a turkey breast.
I guess I could take the recommended food amount and subtract out the other treats she has during the day. She loves her bone at night so we can't stop that! It wouldn't be fair to Buddy to stop the bones.

Carli and Buddy went to their Valentine Party yesterday. Here is Carli showing off her new dress and Buddy running around taking the role of yard monitor.

DeeLind7 · 02-10-2013, 02:09 PM

Carli and Buddy look like they had a great time!

buddymiller · 02-11-2013, 01:59 PM

They did. Presents and all!
We went to an spca event yesterday and for 5 tickets you can talk to a vet. So I thought I would get her guidence on how to help Carli loose the extra weight.
She told me she is overweight.

Showed me how I can tell.

and then pretty much said feed her what is listed on the bag for 8 lb dog. Well I know that and do that already. She wouldn't suggest one food over the other or give me a calorie count. Just a ball park range would be something!
She did say to get one of those balls that she has to work for her food and more exercise. I already make sure the dogs are walked every day 30 -40 mins sometimes longer.
Oh well at least the $5 was for charity.

I did start her on a program that I use to count calories called Calorie King. Then I don't have to add and subtract, the computer does it for you!

DeeLind7 · 02-11-2013, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddymiller

They did. Presents and all!
We went to an spca event yesterday and for 5 tickets you can talk to a vet. So I thought I would get her guidence on how to help Carli loose the extra weight.
She told me she is overweight.

Showed me how I can tell.

and then pretty much said feed her what is listed on the bag for 8 lb dog. Well I know that and do that already. She wouldn't suggest one food over the other or give me a calorie count. Just a ball park range would be something!
She did say to get one of those balls that she has to work for her food and more exercise. I already make sure the dogs are walked every day 30 -40 mins sometimes longer.
Oh well at least the $5 was for charity.

I did start her on a program that I use to count calories called Calorie King. Then I don't have to add and subtract, the computer does it for you!

Our SPCA holds events too. I've yet to go, but I love looking at all the pictures they post on their site.
Too bad the vet didn't offer any other advise. Read the dog food bag? Really? I suppose you never thought about that..

I haven't heard of Calorie King, but I will check it out!

**vagreys** · 02-12-2013, 01:34 PM

Hi. Sorry I couldn't reply over the weekend. I was working odd hours on a project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddymiller

...I also want to rule out I'm not the reason she is gaining. If nothing works I will look into a health reason...

This is exactly backwards to what should be done. While you may be the reason she is gaining weight, ruling yourself out takes months, where ruling out medical conditions takes a week or two, depending on the lab. The diet you feed could be feeding directly into a medical condition, or what you feed could have little effect on her weight due to a metabolic disorder. You want to rule out medical issues, first. However, since you have been to the vet, one hopes your vet ruled out possible thyroid issues, etc., with some blood work, and that we ARE dealing with what and how you feed.

A healthy, normally active, adult, 10-lb Chihuahua needs somewhere in the range of 342-393 kcals/day of metabolizable energy (ME), from all sources. It doesn't matter whether you feed a regular food or a weight management food, your dog needs somewhere in that range of calories per day to maintain her weight at about 10 lbs. If you feed her at that level, her weight will approach 10 lbs, gently, assuming she is not dealing with a medical condition.

Dogs that are underfed for a prolonged period experience a change in metabolism that makes them more efficient at storing calories, particularly carbs. They become less active and seem to gain weight, though they are malnourished. Feeding them regularly at the caloric levels they need excites their metabolism, making them burn more calories and be more active.

I don't know where you got your calorie counts, but the Blue calorie count you cited is well over what the company's own information says. Also, it depends on which formula you are feeding. In the Wellness line, the regular and small-breed formulas are a little different, where in the Blue formulas the difference is negligible. Because you already have the weight management formulas, we will use the numbers for those formulas, as opposed to a regular adult formula (which you could feed just as easily and with the same effect).

Blue Small Breed Weight Management - 421 kcals/cup or 335 kcals/100 grams
Wellness Complete Super5Mix Small Breed Healthy Weight - 335 kcals/cup or 333 kcals/100 grams
Wellness Complete Super5Mix Healthy Weight - 325 kcals/cup or 318 kcals/100 grams

If it were me, this is how I would approach getting her diet sorted out:

I would cut out all human food. Period. She doesn't need the salt and sugar normally found in human food, especially at her size. She also doesn't need the unknown calories.
I would cut out all snacks, except for a carrot or two that she loves. No more.
I would let her daily nutrition come from her high-quality, complete kibble, without all the other stuff she currently gets through the day. I would feed her twice a day, morning and evening, on a regular, predictable schedule. For a Chihuahua, I would feed her near the lower end of her range, at first, and as her weight gets closer to target and her activity level increases, I would feed her toward the higher end of her range. Normal, healthy Chihuahuas burn a little more energy for their size than some breeds.
I would ensure that she had regular, daily exercise in the form of brisk walks or active play.

Blue regular or Small Breed Weight Management - she needs 4/5 cup to 1 cup per day, or 102-117 grams of food per day, divided between two meals.

Wellness Complete Super5Mix Small Breed Healthy Weight - she needs 1 cup to 1.2 cups per day, or 103-118 grams of food per day, divided between two meals.

Wellness Complete Super5Mix Healthy Weight - she needs 1 cup to 1.2 cups per day, or 108-124 grams of food per day, divided between two meals.

Assuming she is healthy, she would do fine on a regular formula and doesn't need a weight management formula. What she needs is fewer snacks and treats between meals, a nutritionally-complete food, regular feedings in the correct amounts, and regular exercise. If you must give her snacks, then feed her some of her regular food taken from her daily ration. In a dog that small, a change of just a couple of tablespoons worth of food or a high-calorie commercial snack, daily, will change her weight.

Every dog is a little different. That's why I gave a range of calories and food. You'll have to adjust for your dog. A Chihuahua shouldn't have much body fat, at all. She should have a tummy tuck when viewed from the side, and a waist when viewed from above. At a healthy weight, you should be able to feel her ribs and see a suggestion of the last three or so ribs, when viewed from the side. You should also be able to see a suggestion of her spine from the mid-back down the curve of her back toward her hips, not sticking out hugely or anything, but a few slight bumps.

Hope this helps. If you have any questions, please let me know.

buddymiller · 02-13-2013, 12:33 PM

Thank you for all your work on this!
I did ask the vet at the show if she thought she was a candidate for diabetes or something else. She asked if she drank a lot and was lethargic, which she isn't, and didn't think she was. I will call my own vet and see what she says.
Before I saw your post I took the Blue regular back to the store and exchanged it for the Wellness super 5 mix healthy weight. I guess I didn't have to. I didn't get the small breed because the little larger kibbles she has to chew which slows her down some. With tiny kibbles she seems to suck it down.
I got the calorie counts off of different sights. I don't think I found the Blue calories on their site but on some nutrition site on line.
I tracked everything that went in her little mouth the last couple days and she is getting about 260-290 cal a day. Her kibbles being 1/4 cup 3 x a day ( it was only 2x with the higher calorie) The vet suggested 3 small meals a day.
Her carrots are the mini carrots. Weighed even the carrots which she had 2 oz. She loves her carrots and gets one every time she uses the doggy door to go out to do her business. She loves her carrots! And the dingo bone. Which I also gave added in.
If I stop giving her these then Buddy wouldn't be getting his. He already will tease her with food. If she is already done with her bone he will sit in front of her slowly eating his while she sits and watches! He doesn't even like carrots but he will take one just to do the same thing. They act just like kids!

Thank you again, I'll let you know what happens.

@deelind7.....Calorie King is a calorie counting program for humans that you can download online. I use it to track what I eat. I made a "user" for carli and put her food in and was able to track her food intake including if she ate something besides her kibble.
I lost over 30 lbs on it and will track when my diet goes by the way side like during Christmas!

DeeLind7 · 02-13-2013, 02:27 PM

buddymiller, thanks for the tip on Calorie King. I think it's a great idea!

**vagreys** · 02-13-2013, 03:21 PM

With a Chihuahua, I'd be more concerned about a thyroid condition (which could present with either weight loss or weight gain, depending) than diabetes, simply because the breed has a predisposition toward thyroid imbalances. If your vet tests thyroid levels, both free and bound T4 need to be considered.

Follow your vet's recommendation. Three feedings a day is fine. Consistency in the schedule is more important than frequency. Carrots are a much better training treat/reward than many things you could offer, and the few calories in carrots are mostly not bioavailable, so the calories she actually gets from them are less even than your calculations; restricting snacks and treats is to get her out of the habit of expecting food throughout the day.

I'm sorry, I thought you had both the Blue and Wellness on hand. What you got is fine, I just wanted you to understand that if you feed her at the proper caloric level, she will lose/gain/maintain weight, regardless of formula. Not all dog food labels include the calorie analysis, but if it is there, it will usually be found either with the feeding guidelines, or with the guaranteed analysis figures. Frequently, what is found on the website is also what is printed on the container. The Wellness calorie analysis is found here.

Her current caloric level has her on an approximate 30% weight loss regimen, which means she should lose about 1 lb. per month (1 lb. per 30-35 days). If you continue with this regimen, then you need to bump up her food to the range I suggested when she approaches 10 lbs. If you use the range I suggested, it will take her longer to reach her target weight, but will be gentler on her system. I use a conservative model that is very precise, and allows me to get rescues to proper weight within +/- 1/4 cup of food per day (or less for a small dog); or, for an 80-lb dog, it allows me to reach and maintain 80 lbs +/- 1 lb, assuming normal activity levels for an adult dog. You have the advantage of knowing your dog, so you have a better idea of what you need to do with snacks and such. My approach has allowed me to deal with strange dogs, getting them on track to a healthy weight, right away, without the benefit of knowing them. If you are seeing improvements in activity level and start to see a little weight loss, then you're doing fine.

02-11-2013, 01:59 PM	#14
buddymiller Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: California Posts: 69 Rep: 10 Unique Rep: 0	They did. Presents and all! We went to an spca event yesterday and for 5 tickets you can talk to a vet. So I thought I would get her guidence on how to help Carli loose the extra weight. She told me she is overweight. Showed me how I can tell. and then pretty much said feed her what is listed on the bag for 8 lb dog. Well I know that and do that already. She wouldn't suggest one food over the other or give me a calorie count. Just a ball park range would be something! She did say to get one of those balls that she has to work for her food and more exercise. I already make sure the dogs are walked every day 30 -40 mins sometimes longer. Oh well at least the $5 was for charity. I did start her on a program that I use to count calories called Calorie King. Then I don't have to add and subtract, the computer does it for you! __________________ Buddy and Carlianna

02-13-2013, 12:33 PM	#17
buddymiller Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: California Posts: 69 Rep: 10 Unique Rep: 0	Thank you for all your work on this! I did ask the vet at the show if she thought she was a candidate for diabetes or something else. She asked if she drank a lot and was lethargic, which she isn't, and didn't think she was. I will call my own vet and see what she says. Before I saw your post I took the Blue regular back to the store and exchanged it for the Wellness super 5 mix healthy weight. I guess I didn't have to. I didn't get the small breed because the little larger kibbles she has to chew which slows her down some. With tiny kibbles she seems to suck it down. I got the calorie counts off of different sights. I don't think I found the Blue calories on their site but on some nutrition site on line. I tracked everything that went in her little mouth the last couple days and she is getting about 260-290 cal a day. Her kibbles being 1/4 cup 3 x a day ( it was only 2x with the higher calorie) The vet suggested 3 small meals a day. Her carrots are the mini carrots. Weighed even the carrots which she had 2 oz. She loves her carrots and gets one every time she uses the doggy door to go out to do her business. She loves her carrots! And the dingo bone. Which I also gave added in. If I stop giving her these then Buddy wouldn't be getting his. He already will tease her with food. If she is already done with her bone he will sit in front of her slowly eating his while she sits and watches! He doesn't even like carrots but he will take one just to do the same thing. They act just like kids! Thank you again, I'll let you know what happens. @deelind7.....Calorie King is a calorie counting program for humans that you can download online. I use it to track what I eat. I made a "user" for carli and put her food in and was able to track her food intake including if she ate something besides her kibble. I lost over 30 lbs on it and will track when my diet goes by the way side like during Christmas! __________________ Buddy and Carlianna

02-13-2013, 03:21 PM	#19
vagreys Adopt a Retired Racer Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: North Chesterfield VA USA Posts: 3,422 Rep: 183 Unique Rep: 66	With a Chihuahua, I'd be more concerned about a thyroid condition (which could present with either weight loss or weight gain, depending) than diabetes, simply because the breed has a predisposition toward thyroid imbalances. If your vet tests thyroid levels, both free and bound T4 need to be considered. Follow your vet's recommendation. Three feedings a day is fine. Consistency in the schedule is more important than frequency. Carrots are a much better training treat/reward than many things you could offer, and the few calories in carrots are mostly not bioavailable, so the calories she actually gets from them are less even than your calculations; restricting snacks and treats is to get her out of the habit of expecting food throughout the day. I'm sorry, I thought you had both the Blue and Wellness on hand. What you got is fine, I just wanted you to understand that if you feed her at the proper caloric level, she will lose/gain/maintain weight, regardless of formula. Not all dog food labels include the calorie analysis, but if it is there, it will usually be found either with the feeding guidelines, or with the guaranteed analysis figures. Frequently, what is found on the website is also what is printed on the container. The Wellness calorie analysis is found here. Her current caloric level has her on an approximate 30% weight loss regimen, which means she should lose about 1 lb. per month (1 lb. per 30-35 days). If you continue with this regimen, then you need to bump up her food to the range I suggested when she approaches 10 lbs. If you use the range I suggested, it will take her longer to reach her target weight, but will be gentler on her system. I use a conservative model that is very precise, and allows me to get rescues to proper weight within +/- 1/4 cup of food per day (or less for a small dog); or, for an 80-lb dog, it allows me to reach and maintain 80 lbs +/- 1 lb, assuming normal activity levels for an adult dog. You have the advantage of knowing your dog, so you have a better idea of what you need to do with snacks and such. My approach has allowed me to deal with strange dogs, getting them on track to a healthy weight, right away, without the benefit of knowing them. If you are seeing improvements in activity level and start to see a little weight loss, then you're doing fine. __________________ Help us Help you! Read and understand the Terms of Service, report offensive posts and Forum Reputation. Helpful Tips - in our FAQ Section and Newbie Guide. Connect with DogForum.org members - Add yourself to the dogforum.net member map.chat with us! Things to do - Start a blog. Be sure to visit the DogForum.net photo gallery Let's see YOU! Use your computer to benefit mankind - join the DogForum.org Folding Team.

		DogForum.net \| Dog Forums and Community > Dog Discussions > Dog Food and Nutrition
Help with counting calories?

02-10-2013, 12:07 PM	#11
DeeLind7 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 7,033 Rep: 55 Unique Rep: 28	buddymiller, I never really counted calories. My vet said his proper weight should be between 9 to 12 pounds. I went by what was on the bag of Blue Buffalo and the canned Canidae. I measured out his food, and fed him 3 times a day, instead of 2. Cut out all high calorie snacks, and no more chew bones, period. I had started out by only feeding him twice a day, but he always "seemed" hungry. By spacing his meals out to 3 times a day, he seemed more satisfied. Now that he's at a normal weight, I feed him twice a day, morning and evening. I still give him veggies and table food, but, when I measure out his food, the chicken breast, steak, or veggies, are part of that measurment. That means less kibble or wet dog food. He still gets some treats during the week, but I make my own, so I know exactly what's in them. He of course loves raw carrots, and baked sweet potatoes. I'm still looking for a "fat" picture of him to post.

02-10-2013, 02:09 PM	#13
DeeLind7 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 7,033 Rep: 55 Unique Rep: 28	Carli and Buddy look like they had a great time!

02-13-2013, 02:27 PM	#18
DeeLind7 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 7,033 Rep: 55 Unique Rep: 28	buddymiller, thanks for the tip on Calorie King. I think it's a great idea!

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)