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Unread 03-14-2011, 03:51 PM   #1
Ivy
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Default Organ Blend

My butcher sells organ blend with bone. Would that be sufficient for thier diet or should I also add some other organs every once in a while?

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Unread 03-14-2011, 06:13 PM   #2
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If you haven't studied thoroughly the concept of the RAW diet, and haven't consulted a veterinary nutritionist with your proposed feed plan, then you are doing your dogs no favors and are, in fact, doing them a disservice by starting a RAW diet without knowing exactly what you are doing. An organ blend would be part of a raw diet, but if you don't know which organs are part of the blend, consistently, then you don't know what you are feeding, its quality, or its nutritional content. You need to do more study and planning before you take your dogs off a complete food. You will need to know exactly how to provide a complete and balanced raw diet, before you start.
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Unread 03-15-2011, 09:34 AM   #3
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I think it's more of a diservice for my dogs to have them eating all the unecessary fillers found in kibble. I know less what is in kibble than what fresh meats I can get at a local butcher or local farm. If I am buying food for my dogs that is human grade, how can that be a diservice to them? Yes, I am still learning about the whole raw diet thing and that is why I am here asking questions.
While I appreciate your response and concern and will certainly take your advice and/or suggestions, please don't underestimate what other forms of research I have been doing outside of the forums.

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Unread 03-15-2011, 02:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
I think it's more of a diservice for my dogs to have them eating all the unecessary fillers found in kibble. I know less what is in kibble than what fresh meats I can get at a local butcher or local farm. If I am buying food for my dogs that is human grade, how can that be a diservice to them? Yes, I am still learning about the whole raw diet thing and that is why I am here asking questions.
While I appreciate your response and concern and will certainly take your advice and/or suggestions, please don't underestimate what other forms of research I have been doing outside of the forums.
I think the point being made is that regardless of how you choose to feed, there is an obligation to know both *what is in the food and *what comprises nutritionally appropriate proportions in what you are feeding your dog. It is the failure to do that that is the disservice. I am as uncomfortable with blanket generalizations made about kibble (ie "all the unnecessary fillers found in kibble") and homecooked diets as I am about generalizations about raw. Unless, and until, one has done comprehensive analyses along the spectrum of foods and dietary choices available, such generalizations are inappropriate and unfounded.
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Unread 03-15-2011, 03:12 PM   #5
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In some foods (not all) there are many things added that have no nutritional value for a dog. I don't hate kibble, but talking with experienced people feeding raw and I will be speaking with my vet when I go there this month, I have decided to go that route. Being uncomfortable because of my own opinion about kibble is unnecessary. I am not bashing kibble nor am I placing judgement on anyone that feeds it to their dogs. Of course there are very good and healthy kibbles out there (that I wouldn't object to feed myself) as there are the not so great ones. Everyone has their thoughts and opinions. I never singled out anyone and would appreciate if the same respect be forwarded to anyone with a different view and opinion.
So if there is no opinion on my original question why stir the pot
Please don't make me feel uncomfortable asking an honest question. That is why I am here, so I can learn about what I love, not to be "put in my place" for my thoughts about foods.
I have taken what Vagreys posted into consideration and will act on it by going to the store and looking to see if the percentages are on the bag. That is why I posted the question.

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Unread 03-15-2011, 04:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
In some foods (not all) there are many things added that have no nutritional value for a dog. I don't hate kibble, but talking with experienced people feeding raw and I will be speaking with my vet when I go there this month, I have decided to go that route. Being uncomfortable because of my own opinion about kibble is unnecessary. I am not bashing kibble nor am I placing judgement on anyone that feeds it to their dogs. Of course there are very good and healthy kibbles out there (that I wouldn't object to feed myself) as there are the not so great ones. Everyone has their thoughts and opinions. I never singled out anyone and would appreciate if the same respect be forwarded to anyone with a different view and opinion.
So if there is no opinion on my original question why stir the pot
Please don't make me feel uncomfortable asking an honest question. That is why I am here, so I can learn about what I love, not to be "put in my place" for my thoughts about foods.
I have taken what Vagreys posted into consideration and will act on it by going to the store and looking to see if the percentages are on the bag. That is why I posted the question.
I think if you reread the posts you will see that the advice and responses offered to have to do with the need to be fully informed regardless of what feeding paradigm one chooses and that no one has, nor will be, singled out for feeding raw, kibble, homecooked, nor any other method. Accordingly, all posts have been respectful as that is exactly what is expected from all posters for all our members. As we all love our dogs, we all act from that motivation which guides our underlying belief system to do our very best for our dogs. My take is that the 'opinion on your original question' is that more research needs to be done and more information gathered which is both vital and applicable whenever contemplating any new feeding system, food, or any dietary change so that the response to the original post is no, as it is insufficient and requires more research and understanding of what comprises a nutritionally complete diet.
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Unread 03-15-2011, 04:21 PM   #7
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Hence why I am here asking questions.
I guess I forgot to be extremly specific with what I meant in the original post.
I am not wanting to feed them just bone/organ blend. I have the proportions and percentages done up for each according to their weight and activity levels. I need to give them a certain amount of organs to their diets and was wondering if a blend of organs is okay as opposed to buying each organ separate and to add variety.

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Unread 03-15-2011, 05:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
I think it's more of a diservice for my dogs to have them eating all the unecessary fillers found in kibble. I know less what is in kibble than what fresh meats I can get at a local butcher or local farm. If I am buying food for my dogs that is human grade, how can that be a diservice to them? Yes, I am still learning about the whole raw diet thing and that is why I am here asking questions.
While I appreciate your response and concern and will certainly take your advice and/or suggestions, please don't underestimate what other forms of research I have been doing outside of the forums.
You're right that I shouldn't make assumptions one way or another about what you're doing. From your question, it read to me as if you didn't know the roles of specific organ meats in the diet, but I shouldn't have made that assumption. Of course, whether or not you need to supplement an organ blend would depend on your butcher's blend. If he is making a blend specifically for raw feeders out of prime organ meat, including liver, then you should be able to find out what the standard ingredients are and in what proportion, and that will tell you if you need to supplement with additional organ meat. If, instead, he is simply making money on the fresh offal he can't otherwise sell, then it more closely resembles meat byproducts and the composition will likely change from week to week, depending on what he's got, and you won't know how much calcium, phosphorus, iron, etc., you are feeding. If he is selling past-date meat and organs as organ blend, as some butchers do, then the composition will vary depending on what sold and what didn't, and may be meat tissue, but of limited nutritional value and utility. Different organs are high or low in different nutrients, as are different kinds of meat, and the proportions are very important in a balanced and complete raw diet. If it were me, I wouldn't rely on a butcher's blend, but might use it as a supplement/treat. I'd be more likely to use a specific blend of organ meats to my own specification to ensure a proper balance of protein, fat, calcium-to-phosphorus ratio, and other minerals and vitamins.

Some think I'm opposed to RAW diets, entirely. I'm not. Some think I'm a proponent of kibble over RAW. I'm not. I very much oppose feeding animals based on human philosophies, such as vegan diets, or based on some human romantic notion of domestic dogs as wolves or the "noble savage" argument. It is certainly possible to feed a domestic dog a complete raw diet, but it takes a lot of work, and requires the incorporation of supplement ingredients that defy the romantic theories. Feeding raw needs to be based on science, not emotion, and not on misinformation about kibble. As the popularity of raw feeding increases, so are the number of reported medical problems associated with malnutrition from feeding inadequate raw diets. Whatever you think about kibble, this isn't happening to dogs being fed quality kibble diets.

Certainly, there are some low-quality kibbles out there. I can't imagine you feeding one of those. There are also kibbles of very high quality, now, which do not use fillers - every ingredient has a nutritional purpose for domestic canines. Not all kibbles are marginal or use low-quality ingredients. What fillers are you referring to?
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Last edited by vagreys; 03-18-2011 at 06:44 PM.. Reason: typo

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Unread 03-18-2011, 01:16 AM   #9
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I've been researching cooking up my own food for my dogs for a bit now. The only reason i haven't yet is because i want to make sure i do better than the food i am currently feeding . I use the high end side of kibble and rotate between several brands. Here's a couple links to books that give good explanations of nutreints , how they are sourced and even complete recipes that are balanced. I tell you what , you don't know what you are getting into into you really start to reasearch food,it's pretty complex.

Welcome to Dogwise.com

Welcome to Dogwise.com

I have 5 books in all so far but these 2 seem to be the most informative and will probably be my reference when I make the change. I too want to have control over what i feed my dogs , but it's not a simple thing

lol - links look the same but they go to different books
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Unread 03-18-2011, 06:41 PM   #10
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Thanks for the suggestions, Necknot. These look like good additions to the library, regardless.
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