Bugle

You can often get a second hand copy off Amazon. It's not cheap, particularly when you bear in mind how badly written it is, but what Billinghurst actually says makes sense, it is just his presentation is poor.

You won't get yuck butt, or at least I had better say you will be unlikely to. Just go steady on the raw pureed veg, avoid carbs (and that includes potato and rice of course), go steady on the organ meat and muscle meat, and your dog will be great !! Don't forget the raw chicken wings ... fish too is good. I bought Tai a salmon head the other day from Morrisons, but I chickened out because the bones were razor sharp and I couldn't be sure that he would crunch them up, I was so scared he would swallow them whole and get one stuck.

ajshep1984

I've been feeding Milo raw for just over a year, the pups and Meg since the day they came home, all a straight switch from death biscuits which was no problem for Milo or the pups but Meg took a while to adjust to bones, she kept throwing fragments back up but did eventually adjust.

I've read a few books but tbh you'll learn more from researching on the net and filling in the gaps on forums, I know it's already been linked but this is a really good website, particularly the 'myths' section: http://www.rawfed.com/

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Bugle

No, don't apologise, I absolutely agree about rawfed.com. it's an excellent website. I just think that as a starter "Give Your Dog A Bone" is a good foundation to "going native". I have learned more from just getting on and doing it, than I have from anything else, but I totally agree about the net ... there are so many fab sites out there about raw feeding. The Yahoo Britbarf site is very good too.

My previous dog, Hal, was fed on raw for just over half his life, and ever since we got Tai back in April, he has never eaten another bit of kibble or biscuit ! I love your expression "death biscuits" ... that is a very apt description of them !

janie

Does it not work out really expensive I know its not right to discuss cost at the expense of a good diet for your dogs but we have 4 middle sized dogs who love thier grub and also is it hard to get as necknot says the nutrition right, Iv toyed many times with this idea but always stopped and remained of Kibble AJShep is this the death biscuit you refer to lol my poor dogs I wont tell them as they enjoy thier food at the moment but am sure theyd love me even more if they had real meat Im just nervous of giving them what they need not making them sick and being able to keep it up financially and another thing my guys all eat well together if I feed raw do you think this would change or not and is it easy to feed this type of food with the dreaded kibble you just pour and go lol no mess either, Im a veggie here guys so go easy with me lol I am interested in giving this some real consideration

Bugle

Janie, I appreciate you are a veggie, and this is going to be very hard for you, but your doggies are not veggies! The best diet you can give them is ... gulp now, take a grip girl ... raw meat and bones !

No, it is not expensive. I have a large mal cross husky weighing somewhere between 80 and 100 lbs, and it costs me around £60 every 3-4 months to feed him. I have worked out that that is cheaper than an expensive kibble. On top of that, you have the savings in vet bills.

If you have 4 dogs, you will be able to get bigger savings on the price quoted above. However, you will need to invest in a chest freezer, which may be a problem both in terms of price and also storage area ... a chest freezer needs space to put it in. I buy Tai's meat on line from Landywoods, and their minimum order is £60 of meat and bones. You get a lot of meat and bones for £60! Obviously, feeding raw meat, raw meaty bones and pureed veg is not as easy as pouring killer kibble (!!) into a bowl, but then when did the best ever come easy?

The money you will save on vets bills alone will pay for the freezer within the first year or so, your dogs will love you for ever, they will have fantastic coats, wet noses, small non-smelly poos, clean bottoms, perfectly performing anal glands, much healthier, cleaner teeth and generally will be bounding with health, so get googling Janie, find yourself a cheap freezer (ebay?) and place your first order with www.landywoods.co.uk ! (I may have that address wrong, but if you google Landywoods, they will come up).

cassblonde

I'll throw my two dollars in here - (although I think I have elsewhere - I just can't remember where) and tell you my story with raw.

When our 16 year old lab Sammy died on Christmas day 2007 my husband and I were devastated. After a few months we talked about buying a poodle cross from a breeder but she wanted a lot of money so it just never happened. We got to the point where we figured that if we were meant to get a dog it would find us. After a year Susie kinda did.

Susie was part of a large litter of pups that a local rescue had on display at our PetSmart one weekend - we knew they would be there and thought we'd go look but didn't intend on getting one. Susie tromped over her sleeping litter mates to sniff my kids, the rescue lady offered to let us hold her and we ended up bringing her home that very day. Jan 12 2008.

I was thrilled to have a puppy and so was everyone else in my family. We wanted Susie to live as long as Sammy or longer, losing him still hurts even though we knew from the time he was 12 that he was gonna go any year now. We wanted Susie to be with us a very very long time. My husband started reading about dog foods and what made a dog food good or bad - we took that information and went online to PetSmart and looked up all the foods they had and settled on Royal Canin as the best of a bad lot.

Then I did some more reading and found this site: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/
With the information I found there we switched Susie to Orijen with plans to switch her protein source in a few months time to avoid too much contact with one source which I have read can cause allergies.

Then I did some MORE reading as I saw mentions of raw feeding on Dog Forum and I started to look into it more and more until I felt that this was how we should be feeding Susie. My husband was unconvinced and still feels that she would do just as well on Orijen but I strongly disagree so we have agreed to disagree. Maybe in 7 years or so he'll see my point.

At this point Susie is a very healthy dog and shows all the signs of great good health. Clean white teeth, no stinky breath, no stinky fur(although she has never been bathed), shiny coat, nice cold wet nose, clear eyes, great body condition and tiny poo(I've seen a jack russleXpug poo almost 3 times the amount Susie poos!!). I feel I am doing the best for her I can and she is fun to watch eat as well

I think over all it costs me something like $50 CND a month to feed Susie - she's about 50lbs. If I were more aggressive in finding ever better meat deals I could cut that down but I haven't. While sourcing meat for Susie I have found better meat deals for my family as well and are saving us money.

Cass

janie

Bugle i did take a deep breath well 2 actually lol the cost is less than i thought we spend forty pounds well forty five now an a 15kg bag lasts us about 2 months for 3 as mabel isnt fully on it yet but we also buy wet food too as i dont think they get all they need from the kibble we buy a good brand and stay away from as much rubbish as we can but i just have never totally felt comfy wihth dry pebbles that swell up 4 times thier size when soaked. with the bones im always afraid they will choke or they will splinter inside yep not only a strange veggie type person but neurotic aswell lol. but our dogs i dont think are as healthy as they could be they all get ear infections girls have skin problems, jasper an mabel have digestive sensetivities and if they dont get fed by certain time in the morning 2 of them are sick bringing up bile I will do some more reading on this I know when they had some raw meat mince beef once when molly was pregnant they were in doggy heaven. would it be ok to swap the 2 older ones 6 and 5yrs mollys 2 and how about mabel shes 4 months just over and amounts i suppose a good book would tell you all of this

Now i like the sound of pureed veggies lol

Bugle

Thought you might like the veggie bit !! Unfortunately, dogs need meat and bones as well !! You'll get used to it ... just think of the cessation of the skin problems and digestive sensitivities ... and possibly maybe even the bile !! The ear infections could be caused by yeast - candida - that horrible cheesy smell that dogs fed on kibble often have is caused by bacterial overgrowth in the gut due to excessive amounts of carbohydrate. This then leads to candida infections - often in the gut, but can also crop up anywhere on the body. I am not a vet though, so this is only a suggestion. A switch to raw would prove the point either way.

Don't worry about bones splintering. Because they are fed raw, even chicken bones are safe. Many people feed their dogs whole carcase of chicken ... I gave Tai half a carcase the other day, because a whole one is too much in one go, it had been stripped of most of the meat and I was very nervous about doing it I must say, but he was fine. Never feed cooked bones of course. I feed Tai on raw meaty lamb rib bones, beef rib bones, marrow bones of course, lamb bones - when I buy a leg of lamb, Tai has the bit at the end. Lamb shanks are good. Landywoods sell turkey necks, which are absolutely fabulous. They also sell RMBs but tbh I prefer to get these from friendly butchers. I don't know where you live, but in Broughton in Milton Keynes there is a brilliant butcher who sells chopped up goat meat with some bone, chicken gizzards, beef rib, chicken carcases, all the organ meats, oxtail, everything ... Tai's fave shop !!

You can feed raw to pups ... the last pup I had was weaned on raw, he never had any biscuit or anything other than meat. He loved his chicken wing each day, took him ages to crunch it all up with his little sharp needle teeth. It doesn't matter how old or how young the dog is, he can be fed raw ... and he will thank you for it !

ajshep1984

Raw doesn't have to be expensive, I get RMB's from the butchers for free which lowers the overall cost. I pay £3.20 for 10kg of chicken carcasses and use Prize Choice meats at £3.10 per 2kg, hearts and liver are dirt cheap from the butchers, eggs from the supermarket and veggies cost next to nothing too. Depending on what death biscuits you feed it could work out considerably cheaper. If you buy from somewhere like Landywoods I believe the meats are even cheaper.

Once you get into the flow it's just as easy as feeding death biscuits. I feed a meat meal in the morning which consists of mince and either hearts, liver, kidneys, eggs or veggies, sometimes with a splash of oil. No chopping just chuck it in, make sure the egg shell breaks as you throw it in if your dogs are as thick as mine. Then in the afternoon throw them a bone or chicken carcass each, it couldn't be much simpler than that, no bowls so it saves on washing up too! They all eat together with no problems.

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janie

Hmmmmmmmm Im a little green around the gills here just having had my cheese and tomatoes on toast hee hee and reading about turkey necks and chicken gizzards lol but am really interested have got OH looking for freezers as we speak

Dave just told me the 15kg probably only lasts around 6 weeks at £45 not cheap and with the wet food a day aswell it works out quite pricey you dont really think about it plus I throw in the odd tin of sardines and boiled eggs

Now NO BOWLS lol where do you feed them Im really being thick here now obviously bones cant be in a bowl so would you need to feed them outside as here in Devon it rains so much we have no carpets so cleaning is easy but I suppose you could only feed bones and carcasses on a dry day you can see Im a complete novice and total beginer here. Dave was laughing at my face when I was reading your posts on what you feed your dogs I was starting to hyperventilate and sweat hee hee , Daves a full on meat eater so I do cook meat its just the thought of it being raw lol. Dave is really all for this hes always wanted to do it its been me holding off so when I said last night to him I was really giving it serious thoughts after reading what you guys had to say on it hes not letting things lie, never seen him act so fast, hes not so fast when I ask him if he could wash the floors

We have some great local farmers who could supply us with all our needs for some things but will give landywoods serious consideration

Thanks guys for the info and address for Landywoods looks like we will be throwing out the death biscuits very soon lol . Do you need to gradually swap them over.

Will be picking your brains a few times hope this will be ok and will keep you posted on the change over

Thanks again xx